Paladin domain

[Greta]

I've been thinking about a sacred servant paladin with high Cha that went with the charm (sub:love) domain. Two questions: would the adoration power of the love subdomain be usable 3+ cha modifier since i have a different ability tied to spellcasting than a cleric? I'm assuming the save on this will be 10+cha mod+ 1(spl level of sanctuary)just as if i had cast sanctuary. If i use the charming smile power that charm domain clerics get at 8th level it should be 10 + 1/2 cleric level equivalent+cha mod right? The powers are totally useless to me if the ability that it is tied to doesnt change to cha, but it seems possible to me that it doesnt change and stays tied to wis.

[Rickmeister]

Don't think it changes..

[KaeYoss]

Greta wrote:

I've been thinking about a sacred servant paladin with high Cha that went with the charm (sub:love) domain. Two questions: would the adoration power of the love subdomain be usable 3+ cha modifier since i have a different ability tied to spellcasting than a cleric? I'm assuming the save on this will be 10+cha mod+ 1(spl level of sanctuary)just as if i had cast sanctuary. If i use the charming smile power that charm domain clerics get at 8th level it should be 10 + 1/2 cleric level equivalent+cha mod right? The powers are totally useless to me if the ability that it is tied to doesnt change to cha, but it seems possible to me that it doesnt change and stays tied to wis.

The archetype doesn't mention such a change, so officially, no.

However, it's a very reasonable ruling, maybe even the intended ruling, so talk to your GM. Tell your GM that I'd allow it.

[Greta]

Well it doesn't say anything directly in the archetype's description, but you know how sometimes rules are tucked away in your mind and you just can't place them? I was thinking there was a rule that said that if you acquire a domain from a separate class that the domain abilities were tied to that class's main casting stat but couldn't remember. Seems to me like it should work the way I want it to, but I've definitely been wrong before.

[Beckett]

KaeYoss wrote:

Greta wrote:

I've been thinking about a sacred servant paladin with high Cha that went with the charm (sub:love) domain. Two questions: would the adoration power of the love subdomain be usable 3+ cha modifier since i have a different ability tied to spellcasting than a cleric? I'm assuming the save on this will be 10+cha mod+ 1(spl level of sanctuary)just as if i had cast sanctuary. If i use the charming smile power that charm domain clerics get at 8th level it should be 10 + 1/2 cleric level equivalent+cha mod right? The powers are totally useless to me if the ability that it is tied to doesnt change to cha, but it seems possible to me that it doesnt change and stays tied to wis.

The archetype doesn't mention such a change, so officially, no.

However, it's a very reasonable ruling, maybe even the intended ruling, so talk to your GM. Tell your GM that I'd allow it.

I wouldn't allow it any more than I would a Cleric whose Domain grants him Rage as a Barbarian to apply their Wisdom rather than Con, (if it doesn't say so). You are not suppossed to be as good at it as the main class, but rather to be able to do so to a lesser or back up extent, in my opinion.

[KaeYoss]

Beckett wrote:

I wouldn't allow it any more than I would a Cleric whose Domain grants him Rage as a Barbarian to apply their Wisdom rather than Con, (if it doesn't say so).

Apples and oranges, man. Rage is an ability of superhuman toughness and strength. Con makes sense, no matter who does it.

Domains, on the other hand, are magic. They are tied to the character's magic. A cleric's magic happens to be tied to wisdom, but a paladin's isn't. They gain their power, including their magic, from charisma.

Beckett wrote:

You are not suppossed to be as good at it as the main class, but rather to be able to do so to a lesser or back up extent, in my opinion.

The sacred servant paladin is not supposed to be as good as a cleric. That's why they only get one domain, and their effective level for domain abilities is 3 levels lower than their paladin level. That's less effective enough for me, no need to make paladins depend on yet another ability score (paladin magic wasn't moved away from wisdom an a whim.)

In fact, the fact that paladins casting with charisma is new to pathfinder might be why this doesn't say that the domain uses cha instead: Maybe whoever made that domain forgot about that PF change.

[Beckett]

I disagree. Domain powers do actually use abilities other than Wisdom, so I don't think it was a mistake. However, I'm not oppossed to you doing that. :)

I'm just think that there is validation for not doing it. A better example is how other classes have the option of getting Domains, but do not universally shift the ability score the powers go off of.

[Greta]

Beckett wrote:

I disagree. Domain powers do actually use abilities other than Wisdom, so I don't think it was a mistake. However, I'm not oppossed to you doing that. :)

I'm just think that there is validation for not doing it. A better example is how other classes have the option of getting Domains, but do not universally shift the ability score the powers go off of.

Would you mind giving an example? Are you thinking of inquisitors and druids? They start off tied to wisdom, I'm just not sure what you are thinking of. I agree with kaeyoss, using rage as an example is like apples to oranges. My casting stat is cha, my interpretation makes sense to me, I think the person who made the sacred servant just forgot to make it clear, but I was hoping for some text somewhere that would answer the question that wasn't in the sacred servant description. Please give me an example of another class that gets a domain whos main casting stat isn't wisdom and show me where they do not get to change domain powers to go off their primary stat, I can't find it anywhere.

[Greta]

Rage gives a flat +4 str +4 con. It isnt tied to the character's con score and I just don't think the example here makes any sense. Were you thinking what I'm asking about was somewhat similar to this? I just don't see it. Rage is tied to nothing, flat bonus. spellcasting and domain powers are directly tied to your casting stat, and they are variable based on what your casting stat score is. Help me out if I'm missing something.

[Greta]

Beckett wrote:

I disagree. Domain powers do actually use abilities other than Wisdom, so I don't think it was a mistake. However, I'm not oppossed to you doing that. :)

I'm just think that there is validation for not doing it. A better example is how other classes have the option of getting Domains, but do not universally shift the ability score the powers go off of.

I can't think of any domains that the #of times per day isnt tied to your level or your wisdom, and I also can't think of any that require a save that don't have the dc tied to wisdom.

[Greg Wasson]

I can't find the "rule" either. But gosh I seem to remember it. It could very well be a house rule that I have just assumed.

When using domains, with non-clerics, ignore the word "cleric" and change the wis modifier to the "casting" attribute. So yeppers, I agree with you, but can't find the RAW.

Greg