| Phage |
Assuming I took the form of something with hands, could I wield weapons and use iterative attacks?
It looked like people were in agreement that an air elemental form could use a bow so wasn't sure if this extended to other forms.
Specifically,
If I cast Form of the Dragon with a BaB of 11/6/1, could I swing three times with a falchion and pair it with a secondary Bite/Wing/Wing/Tail combo?
Or use TWF to gain 3 attacks per hand plus the four natural attacks, netting ten total attacks?
| Are |
Yes, you can use iterative attacks as a Dragon (or any other form that has the ability to wield weapons).
You can also pair the iterative attacks with natural attacks, but those natural attacks will all be at a -5 penalty (they are treated as secondary attacks when paired with iterative attacks).
If you use the hands to wield weapons, you can't also use the hands for claw attacks.
| Remco Sommeling |
The elemental is already a stretch, yes it can assume a roughly humanoid form, but in general it is assumed to be a type not using equipment, do not be surprised if your DM says it can not be done.
A dragon just isn't humanoid and should not wield weapons, when the shape does not allow you to shift gear to your shape that is a good hint it isn't supposed to work.
| Phage |
Are, you said forms with the ability to wield weapons, was this listed somewhere on the creatures description?
If not, is there specific rules for what sort of appendages/phalange are compatible?
Would a bird form with talons be dexterous enough? What about a raptor's arms? Or a bear's? Four legged reptiles? Spiders?
Yup, I knew that natural attacks for the limb being used can be used with the attack so using a two handed or two weapons would nix both claws, just wasn't sure which forms' claws would work for folding the weapon.
| Remco Sommeling |
Are, you said forms with the ability to wield weapons, was this listed somewhere on the creatures description?
If not, is there specific rules for what sort of appendages/phalange are compatible?
Would a bird form with talons be dexterous enough? What about a raptor's arms? Or a bear's? Four legged reptiles? Spiders?
Yup, I knew that natural attacks for the limb being used can be used with the attack so using a two handed or two weapons would nix both claws, just wasn't sure which forms' claws would work for folding the weapon.
In general that is a DM's call, the polymorph spells that shift armor and weapons are specifically called out.
Some people will say a monkey/ape can wield weapons effectively, some people will say an elemental can, personally I think it is a bad idea to bypass the general nature of the polymorph spells that way, so I would allow them to wield weapons with a penalty at best.What you can do, though I too find it a bit gamist, is make unarmed strikes though technically you got to have improved unarmed strike still and combine them with natural attacks, beware of the kung fu panda, dragon.. whatever.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
|
It's true—it's a GM's call as to what polymorph forms can wield weapons, but if they can, then they can indeed use them to make iterative attacks.
For the record, though, and as the rules are written, dragons can not/do not use manufactured weapons. This is partially a game balance issue (since dragons already get a HECK of a lot of attacks as it is), but mostly due to a flavor issue. Dragons wielding weapons is not the flavor of game Pathfinder wants to be.
| BigNorseWolf |
Assuming I took the form of something with hands, could I wield weapons and use iterative attacks?
It looked like people were in agreement that an air elemental form could use a bow so wasn't sure if this extended to other forms.
Specifically,
If I cast Form of the Dragon with a BaB of 11/6/1, could I swing three times with a falchion and pair it with a secondary Bite/Wing/Wing/Tail combo?
Or use TWF to gain 3 attacks per hand plus the four natural attacks, netting ten total attacks?
While a dragon has hands i don't think they can stand upright to wield them. They're quadrupeds.
| HaraldKlak |
Assuming I took the form of something with hands, could I wield weapons and use iterative attacks?
It looked like people were in agreement that an air elemental form could use a bow so wasn't sure if this extended to other forms.
Specifically,
If I cast Form of the Dragon with a BaB of 11/6/1, could I swing three times with a falchion and pair it with a secondary Bite/Wing/Wing/Tail combo?
Or use TWF to gain 3 attacks per hand plus the four natural attacks, netting ten total attacks?
Well the dragon can't use weapons, since it does not have hands.
If you want to get as many attack as possible, you could take add in a level of monk, which specifically allows you to make unarmed attacks with your hands full, using feet or elbows that are gonna take away any of your natural attacks. So you could reach 9 attacks that way.
| Remco Sommeling |
Phage wrote:Assuming I took the form of something with hands, could I wield weapons and use iterative attacks?
It looked like people were in agreement that an air elemental form could use a bow so wasn't sure if this extended to other forms.
Specifically,
If I cast Form of the Dragon with a BaB of 11/6/1, could I swing three times with a falchion and pair it with a secondary Bite/Wing/Wing/Tail combo?
Or use TWF to gain 3 attacks per hand plus the four natural attacks, netting ten total attacks?
Well the dragon can't use weapons, since it does not have hands.
If you want to get as many attack as possible, you could take add in a level of monk, which specifically allows you to make unarmed attacks with your hands full, using feet or elbows that are gonna take away any of your natural attacks. So you could reach 9 attacks that way.
While technically possible, I'd never make that character, as a player running across Bruce the Dragon Monk once is enough to lose my immersion in the game, basically something I would not like to see used because it is just so very silly.