I am playing Rise of the Runelords and my Ranger just got smashed into a pulp by the head of the giants in Hook Mountain. Literally - if I had been at full health, I would have ended at -37 after the full attack.
So what I need to do is either recreate my Ranger slightly better or create something else. Since we already have a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, and Bard, I'm leaning towards a Fighter. But a 'Combat Maneuvers' Fighter - focusing everything on wielding a flail and disarming and tripping. We are limited to 3.5 Core rules, basically Human only, and 28 point buy. Does anyone have any build advice. I will be remaking or making the new character at level 9.
I am probably going to straight change my Ranger's items for any new items I need, those being: +1 Shocking Longbow, 2x +1 Kukris, +3 Chain Shirt, +2 Gloves of Dexterity, Belt of Giant's Strength, Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Protection +1
Fighter is a good option but don't discount a barabarian.
If you want to build the ultimate melle damage output guy then fighter is the way to go.
As far as core only does he allow 3.0 because the rules as written state that unless it has been uopdated to 3.5 then the 3.0 rile and feat stands as is.
That being said look at Masters of the Wild and if you have feats to burn take a few of the toughness feats like Dragons toughness or Giants toughness and you'll rack up HP that would make Gods jealous. Improved toughness is really good too.
We had a fighter do a few of those and he had 3 times the entire parties HP by himself. at 10th level he had over 160hp or some number close to that. yes he had a 20 con and he rolled near max(witnessed) all the time but still he was a HP tank that saved us all because the enemies were so focused on bringing him down the rest of us had free reign to light them up.
Any character that can create a contingency heal spell...Or perhaps contingency raise dead.
Fighter is a good option but don't discount a barabarian.
Our Cleric was previously a Barbarian. Until he got smashed by normal Ogres when we tried to storm Fort Ranik. Which is why he is now a Cleric. And this is our munchkin player so I think I will avoid the Barbarian and stick to ramming feats down the throat of a heavy flail.
As far as core only does he allow 3.0 because the rules as written state that unless it has been uopdated to 3.5 then the 3.0 rile and feat stands as is.
Let's assume, for simplicity, if it isn't on d20srd.org, it isn't allowed.
EDIT: Can I cast "Mordenkai's Helpful Thread?"
From what it sounds like, no character that you could have made would have protected you from that instance of bad luck.
I appreciate the figurative pat on the shoulder and all but that isn't any sort of assistance in building a new character.
It's not a pat on the back.
You're looking for a character build to prevent a repeat of what happened to your Ranger. I'm telling you that there is no such animal. In many ways this is a luck based game, especially at the beginning levels. I had a Paladin and watched a cleric get oneshotted the same way at a run of the new Temple of Elemental Evil. In both cases we were hit by a critical strike by an ogre with a greatclub and were each brought down from full to below -10 with that strike.
Yes, weapons are dangerous - that's why I wanted to focus on combat maneuvers such as disarm and trip. I want something that might be effective until we hit dragons or something.
I am just looking for suggestions on a 28 pt build and feat distribution for level 9 for a Fighter that is best capable of disarming, tripping, and otherwise hurting things. Or possibly a Barbarian. That or a suggested rebuild of my TWF Kukri Ranger.
And if it isn't even a pat on the back, you aren't being even the remotest bit useful.
So far for a help request thread I have achieved two stupid answers and two stupid non-answers.
You know Cartigan, this is exactly this moment when your attitude comes back to bite you in your rear. :)
I was hoping point out how how suggesting the ghost template and 3.0 and non-core material after details provided in the OP is stupid might encourage something resembling useful information.
Perhaps I poorly conveyed that I just want a Ranger with a better ability array than previously or a Barbarian or Fighter built to use combat maneuvers. I know Giants with Big Weapons do Lots of Damage. Thank you for pointing that out. Perhaps we can move on to some actual build advice paying attention to the specific details provided in that regard.
|
I think you will be disappointed if you head down the combat manoeuvres road with a fighter, especially if you are limited to only using the PHB. Giants are hard to disarm, and once you do, they can still use their slam attack for modest damage, or grapple.
What is the rest of your party geared towards doing? Do they need you to be putting out a lot of damage, or do they just need someone with a high AC and hitpoints to door stop? Can they afford to have you as a ranged primary ranger or fighter?
I think you will be disappointed if you head down the combat manoeuvres road with a fighter, especially if you are limited to only using the PHB. Giants are hard to disarm, and once you do, they can still use their slam attack for modest damage.
I have fairly close to a 50/50 shot to disarm a Giant if I've dumped everything into using a disarming weapon (like a Heavy Flail) and rather a giant with a slam attack that doesn't have the weapon bonus and 1.5x damage and x3 crit to hit me than one who does.
What is the rest of your party geared towards doing?
Munchkin Cleric: Being CODZILLA and a dick
Druid: It's a Druid in 3.5Rogue/Bard: Singing and disarming traps (poorly, for both)
Sorcerer: Fireball and Scorching Ray
Do they need you to be putting out a lot of damage, or do they just need someone with a high AC and hitpoints to door stop?
Neither - we have a Druid and Munchkin Cleric in the party. I might as well be a Monk.
And I can tell you now, high AC meatshield doesn't work. You will NEVER outstrip the opponent's to-hit and you will NEVER have enough hit points to take their blows. If I wanted to not be hit, I would roll a Wizard or a Sorcerer.Maybe just say screw the whole melee combat thing and dump everything I can into ranged combat. That build's always a pain though because you have to figure out how much Str you do or don't need.
|
|
Take the ranger, and go full ranged with it. 28 point buy is generous enough to do it very well. Force your cleric or the sorc to cast GMW on your bow (or buy some scrolls or eventually a pearl of power) and rock out with a holy / shocking weapon.
*shrug*
I disliked playing a flail fighter after 10th level or so. More spell casters and more natural weapons. And I found once you start disarming everything you meet, the creatures start carrying more than one weapon. But that's a dm reaction and campaign specific thing.
I ran rise of the runelords, I can't imagine playing through it using only the 3 core books. It is a meat grinder.
Go human (for the feat and skill points) fighter (for the feats), skip the flail and go straight for the spiked chain, get weapon finesse. Focus on Dex with a reasonable Int. You are giving up damage for the most part. Get several chains, you are probably going to lose one in the middle of a fight from time to time. Get dodge and mobility, so you can get spring attack. You will also want combat expertise and improved disarm. If you have spare points to get some strength you might try improved trip, but that isn't likely in most cases. Invest in some bolas (don't bother with the EWP since you'll be making touch attacks on large creatures) and try to trip at distance.
...what?
A Spiked Chain is a feat I can't spend elsewhere. So is weapon finesse. And if I focus on Dex, I have not even the ghost of the chance of pulling off ANY special attacks like tripping or disarming so the entire argument falls apart before it gets anywhere. And spring attack what the hell?
I might do all that if I wanted to be a MONK.
...what?
A Spiked Chain is a feat I can't spend elsewhere. So is weapon finesse. And if I focus on Dex, I have not even the ghost of the chance of pulling off ANY special attacks like tripping or disarming so the entire argument falls apart before it gets anywhere. And spring attack what the hell?
I might do all that if I wanted to be a MONK.
With weapon finesse you can use your Dex to disarm instead of Str. If you don't think you'll be capable of disarming by focusing on Dex, you definitely will not be able to do it by focusing on Str.
With weapon finesse you can use your Dex to disarm instead of Str. If you don't think you'll be capable of disarming by focusing on Dex, you definitely will not be able to do it by focusing on Str....what?
A Spiked Chain is a feat I can't spend elsewhere. So is weapon finesse. And if I focus on Dex, I have not even the ghost of the chance of pulling off ANY special attacks like tripping or disarming so the entire argument falls apart before it gets anywhere. And spring attack what the hell?
I might do all that if I wanted to be a MONK.
So I can disarm and possibly use ranged attacks?
So I can disarm and possibly use ranged attacks?With weapon finesse you can use your Dex to disarm instead of Str. If you don't think you'll be capable of disarming by focusing on Dex, you definitely will not be able to do it by focusing on Str....what?
A Spiked Chain is a feat I can't spend elsewhere. So is weapon finesse. And if I focus on Dex, I have not even the ghost of the chance of pulling off ANY special attacks like tripping or disarming so the entire argument falls apart before it gets anywhere. And spring attack what the hell?
I might do all that if I wanted to be a MONK.
Yeah, or you can be pudding. If you want to be tough, play a CoDzilla.
I'd be better off trying to trip and disarm and hurt things with a flail I'm thinking.
|
|
Snow Savant had a spike chain tripper build iirc. Let me go dig it up.
Here it is:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870774/Fighter-20:_The_ 34;Gatling_Chain_Gun34;_Tripper
One glaring issue with it for you, its very not core only. I'll dig a little more, someone has likely done a core only version of it.
Snow Savant had a spike chain tripper build iirc. Let me go dig it up.
Here it is:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870774/Fighter-20:_The_ 34;Gatling_Chain_Gun34;_TripperOne glaring issue with it for you, its very not core only. I'll dig a little more, someone has likely done a core only version of it.
Given that build basically entirely relies on non-core abilities, I doubt it.
|
|
Its the char-op boards, there is always another version of something :)
Basically what pres man was suggesting.
1. Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Combat Reflexes
4. Dodge
5.
6. Mobility, Two Weapon Fighting
7.
8. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9. Spring Attack
10. Whirlwind Attack
11.
12. Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Disarm
13.
14. Improved Critical Spiked Chain
15. Weapon Focus Spiked Chain (If you survive to these levels the remaining feats are just suggestions)
16. Weapon Specialization Spiked Chain
17.
18. Power Attack, Cleave
19.
20. Great Cleave
Or, so you can get dimension door at 16th level:
1. Ranger - Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise
2. Ranger - Two Weapon Fighting
3. Fighter - Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes
4. Fighter - Weapon Finesse
5. Ranger - Endurance
6. Ranger - Dodge
7. Ranger
8. Ranger - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9. Fighter - Mobility
10. Fighter - Spring Attack
11. Horizon Walker
12. Horizon Walker - Whirlwind Attack
13. Horizon Walker
14. Horizon Walker
15. Horizon Walker - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Horizon Walker
17. Horizon Walker
18. Horizon Walker - Improved Critical Spiked Chain or Improved Disarm
19. Horizon Walker
20. Horizon Walker
(actually I think you can tweak this to get it earlier than 16)
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/21065393/Spiked_chain_Cor e_Fighter?pg=1
Its the char-op boards, there is always another version of something :)
It would have to be a different build entirely and there isn't going to be jack on the char op boards that is 3.5 core only.
|
|
There was lots of stuff on the char-op boards that was core only, or restricted to certain books - The couple of years I hung out there people would post similar threads to this one asking for advice.
They just didn't stay high up on the boards for very long, and the search function blew, so you didn't notice them unless you were reading every day.
Found another one that isn't focused on the twf:
1st EWP (spiked chain)
1st Combat Expertise
1st Improved Trip
2nd Combat Reflexes
3rd Power Attack
4th Cleave
6th Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
6th Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)
8th Greater Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
9th Iron Will
10th Improved Disarm
12th Greater Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)
12th Blind-Fight (YMMV)
A char-op with Cleave? That's madness
I was thinking more
Fighter:
Str: 16; Dex: 13; Con: 14; Int: 13; Wis: 10; Cha: 8 (I think that was the spread)
1) Improved Initiative (HB)
1) Power Attack
1) Combat Expertise (FB)
2) WF (Heavy Flail) (FB)
3) Improved Disarm
4) Improved Trip (FB)
6) WS (Heavy Flail)
6) Dodge (FB)
8) GWF (Heavy Flail) (FB)
9) Improved Crit (Heavy Flail)
Or Ranger
Str: 14; Dex: 17; Con: 12; Int: 9; Wis: 12; Cha: 8 (I think)
And focus on Longbow: take Archery combat style, WF (Longbow), Improved Init, Point Blank Shot, Stealthy, and Precise Shot (or something, I forgot). FE: Goblin +2, Giant +4. Get a +1 Composite 4 Longbow and a Wand of Bull's Strength, and Frost and Shocking arrows.
The Horizon Walker set up is interesting, I may think about that.
The problem with the heavy flail over the spiked chain is when fighting giants, they have the reach advantage on you. By the time you get close enough to use the flail they have probably already squashed you pretty good. And if you do make it, then you'll be trading a single attack for them to full attack you on top of the AoO.
I guess you could always wait for them to charge you and then 5 ft step in to full attack. Still I think you'd be better readying an attack with a spiked chain in that instance.
I know you said something about using d20srd.org, if you are allowed anything from there, you might look at the following feats:
Hold the Line: useful if you are facing a lot of charging foes.
Knock Down: useful if tripping is more of an after thought for you. Improved trip is better because your addition attack is made on a prone target, but knock down has the advantage of you not being tripped back or losing your tripping weapon.
In any case, if you go heavy flail or spiked chain, I would get a few back up ones. Because if you get too annoying, your DM is likely to sunder/shatter your weapon, and good luck finding one of those in a loot pile.
The problem with the heavy flail over the spiked chain is when fighting giants, they have the reach advantage on you. By the time you get close enough to use the flail they have probably already squashed you pretty good. And if you do make it, then you'll be trading a single attack for them to full attack you on top of the AoO.
If the giants intend to smash you, they will approach within THEIR 10' range. One total defense action later, you 5' step in and get a full attack.
I know you said something about using d20srd.org, if you are allowed anything from there, you might look at the following feats:
Hold the Line: useful if you are facing a lot of charging foes.
I don't think I've ever even noticed that section on the site before. What book are these even from? I was trying to give people an easy reference for 3.5 Core, but people go and mess it up.
In any case, if you go heavy flail or spiked chain, I would get a few back up ones. Because if you get too annoying, your DM is likely to sunder/shatter your weapon, and good luck finding one of those in a loot pile.
The chance of that occurring is between none and none. Unless for some reason he decides to completely change how he runs the game and a lot of the monsters in RotR have Improved Sunder.
|
I don't think I've ever even noticed that section on the site before. What book are these even from? I was trying to give people an easy reference for 3.5 Core, but people go and mess it up.I know you said something about using d20srd.org, if you are allowed anything from there, you might look at the following feats:
Hold the Line: useful if you are facing a lot of charging foes.
The Salient Deity Abiliites earlier on the page are from Deities and Demigods. The feats he linked have a section header explaining that these are feats available to Deities; not sure if they're from D&Dg also.
I don't think I've ever even noticed that section on the site before. What book are these even from? I was trying to give people an easy reference for 3.5 Core, but people go and mess it up.I know you said something about using d20srd.org, if you are allowed anything from there, you might look at the following feats:
Hold the Line: useful if you are facing a lot of charging foes.
As Howie said, they are from Deities and Demigods a 3ed book. They can also be found in the official 3.5 SRD in the Divine Abilities and Feats section. Most of the feats do not require anything related to deities as you saw on the link.
As I said, you mentioned about d20srd.org, which does include some non-Core material (not in the PHB, DMG, MM), so I don't know if you can use them, but they are there.
Yeah the srd has content from unearthed arcana, deities and demigods and a psionic book.
Unearthed Arcana stuff I could probably get away with and there is exactly one feat (well maybe 2) in Psionics that is usable by anyone that isn't a psion and thanks for reminding me because it is an archery feat.
Yeah the srd has content from unearthed arcana, deities and demigods and a psionic book.Unearthed Arcana stuff I could probably get away with and there is exactly one feat (well maybe 2) in Psionics that is usable by anyone that isn't a psion and thanks for reminding me because it is an archery feat.
Cloak Dance: use move to get concealment.
Deadly Precision: reroll 1's on sneak attack dice.
Greater Manyshot: make multiple shots as standard action.
Mind over Body: heal 1+Con ability points per day.
Rapid Metabolism: heal normal+2xCon hit points per day.
Reckless Offense: -4 to AC to get +2 to attack.
Sidestep Charge: +4 dodge vs. charge. If they miss you get AoO.
StandStill: AoO for movement can be used to stop foe from moving farther.
There are actually more than I realized. Though some I have to wonder despite being usable, how really useful they are (rapid metabolism seems pretty weak except in games where healing magic is rare for example).
How about some comments and suggestions on the two possible (very loose) builds I have presented for my use instead of quoting psionic and deity feats.
Goblin for favored enemy is a pretty crappy idea unless you are doing it for merely roleplaying reasons. Pretty much any humanoid for favored enemy is a crappy way to go unless you are playing a very specific type of setting.
Still PF is human-erotic oops human-centric, so you could take humans as a favored enemy and not be too badly off. I'd go with a larger group that you are more likely to encounter at higher levels such as: dragons, magical beasts, or abberrations. Outsiders (evil) aren't that bad of a choice, either, though I personal void it for anything other than a fiend hunter build.
Goblin for favored enemy is a pretty crappy idea unless you are doing it for merely roleplaying reasons. Pretty much any humanoid for favored enemy is a crappy way to go unless you are playing a very specific type of setting.
Take 5 minutes to read the first post.
Take 5 minutes to read the first post.Goblin for favored enemy is a pretty crappy idea unless you are doing it for merely roleplaying reasons. Pretty much any humanoid for favored enemy is a crappy way to go unless you are playing a very specific type of setting.
You mean the RotRL part? Yeah, you've gotten past the first part.
*Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert*Goblins in almost any campaign only make good foes at low levels.
Your new character will not have lived the same life as your old character, thus he probably wasn't at Sandpoint during the attacks. Different favored enemies would probably make sense for your new character base on his different life he lived.
Do you seriously think you need favored enemy:goblin, especially PF goblin who are brain-dead pyromaniacs, at higher levels? No goblin in PF's setting ever survived past level 6. Ok, I don't know that, but that is certainly the impression they give off.
Take 5 minutes to read the first post.Goblin for favored enemy is a pretty crappy idea unless you are doing it for merely roleplaying reasons. Pretty much any humanoid for favored enemy is a crappy way to go unless you are playing a very specific type of setting.
You mean the RotRL part? Yeah, you've gotten past the first part.
*Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert**Spoiler alert*
Goblins in almost any campaign only make good foes at low levels.
Your new character will not have lived the same life as your old character, thus he probably wasn't at Sandpoint during the attacks. Different favored enemies would probably make sense for your new character base on his different life he lived.Do you seriously think you need favored enemy:goblin, especially PF goblin who are brain-dead pyromaniacs, at higher levels? No goblin in PF's setting ever survived past level 6. Ok, I don't know that, but that is certainly the impression they give off.
Which is why they are at a +2 and giants at a +4. I can't think of anything else to put such a low level bonus in.
Robert has it - your best bet is tripping build.
It'll go out of style if you ever encounter flying enemies, but that's no different for any fighter build.
I don't know how a dex based tripping build would be terribly successful.
I'll try Monstrous Humanoid if I go with the Ranger.