A while back, I played in/co-DMed a homebrew campaign that had lots and lots of roleplaying, backstory, and character development, and after much deliberation, I've decided I want to write a novel about it. The problem is, a lot of the backstory is intertwined with certain copyrighted elements of D&D (as well as the Greyhawk campaign setting). While I could theoretically change all of the names of the copyrighted things, I'd rather not have it just turn into yet another fantasy novel.
But if I don't want to change the names, what should I do? Is it feasible to try and get WotC to endorse a story taking place in one of their campaign settings? I'm not hoping to create the next Drizz't, but I'd like the best shot I can get.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
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I had a friend who used to work at the headquarters of Games Workshop here in the UK. He said that he used to field many calls from people who had written stories and novels based on GW copywrighted materials and a lot of them got very upset when he told them that they had zero chance of any of these stories being published by the company.
Now I can't speak for WotC but I would suspect that it is highly unlikely that they would publish an unsolicited manuscript. Plus, if you attempted to publish anything based off their intellectual property without their permission expect to be slapped with a cease and desist order so fast that it would make your head spin...
Basically most companies that publish their own settings such as gaming companies, comic publishers and so on, are likely to have a policy in place of automatically rejecting any piece of work they have not solicited.
That said, there are two ways into writing novels for this sort of company. Firstly, you should check out writing competitions such as RPG Superstar and the like. Winning one of these (or indeed just doing well) is a good way of getting your work noticed and success breeds success. This is as true in writing just as much as it is in other fields. Also remember a lot of game designers have written novels. Look to the likes of Ed Greenwood, Margeret Weis and Tracey Hickman for examples of this.
The other way is to remove any trace of intellectual property from your novel and attempt to publish it through publishers. Many writers are current or former gamers and some have based their games largely on their campaigns. Stephen Erikssons "Malazan Book of the Fallen" is based on his GURPS campaign for example. It will be hard and expect a lot of rejection letters but if you persevere you may find success.
If you manage to write a complete, unsolicited novel based on D&D that's actually good, then the first thing you'll want to do is edit out any reference or likeness to D&D.
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I expected pretty much what you all told me- and I guess the important thing is that I know I need to write this. (It's been growing inside my head for years now.) Once it's done, or at least on its way to being done, I'll start exploring my options.
Alright, here's another question. What's considered intellectual property when it comes to tabletop games? Meaning, if I include my fellow players' characters in my story, and I do get it published, do I need any sort of written permission from those players? If not, assuming it got to be very famous, would they have any claim to royalties or anything like that? And does that change if any or all of their character information is posted on a public website?
... royalties ...
It still sounds like you're going into this with entirely the wrong mindset.
Assuming that you hold on to the WoTC setting elements in your story, the only way you are going to get paid at all for this is if you completely forget about it for now, then write a ton of other (completely original) material, either in game design or in fiction, get a lot of it published, make a strong name for yourself as an author, and finally are solicited by WoTC to write something for their game. Even then, getting paid isn't the same as getting royalties. I could be wrong, but I don't really think it's possible for you to get royalties on something like this, no matter what.
All that said I still think that's a really bad idea. The best advice for a writer is to write, write it now, write it as well as you can, and the reason for that is so that you're always growing. Writers grow by writing. Five years from now, your passions should be focused on something completely new, something that springs from the writer you've become, not on an old D&D game that you used to think would make a good story.
Write it as a web fiction, or better yet, a "campaign journal" (which is arguably the same thing, just framed and presented differently). Don't write it because you think it's going to get famous and make you money. It isn't. But it's good practice, because right now it's something that you believe in creatively, and with a little luck you could even earn an online 'following' of fellow gamers, who enjoy your work and will be supportive of whatever you may do in the future.
Yeah, unless your father is Mearls or Salvatore, this isn't happening [professionally].
Write for yourself; you won't have to worry about copyright infringement and you won't have impossible D&D expectations. Go to writer workshops or writing classes to get outside critiques. (Don't rely on friends and family; they're too nice.)
WoTC or Paizo or TSR don't own swords and sorcery fantasy.
The character names probably aren't based on anything 'real'.
Just take something that happened in the game and write a story based on that experience that contains no one else's material.
The lady that wrote the twilight stuff wrote about vampires, and werewolves, but that didn't mean Anne Rice had any claim on her material.
Elves, dwarves, and the like aren't owned by anyone.
You can use things like wizard or sorceror without fear as those are terms as old as time.
Don't refer to characters in your book as "rangers with X levels" and things like skills and spells.
Magic missle is 'mystical fiery darts that lept from his hands'.
Things like that.
IF you spent enough time taking the experience you had and writing your own stuff, it wouldnt be as hard as you think (that's how most writers do it) and it would be something all your own.
. The best advice for a writer is to write, write it now, write it as well as you can, and the reason for that is so that you're always growing. Writers grow by writing.
REALLY, REALLY, REALLY GOOD ADVICE.
And if you haven't started yet, then rent/buy/download a copy of Skindeep and watch it. Then start to write.
Greg
Alright, here's another question. What's considered intellectual property when it comes to tabletop games?Anything mentioned in the copyright section at the front. Basically if it's identifiable as someone else's property it's probably copyrighted.
I think he's asking whether or not the PCs in his game are the intellectual property of his players. Which, I should certainly hope so, but I can't speak definitively; IANAL.
More than likely the OP is not a writer...
Sounds to me like he has a story and wants to tell it. I call that writing. :)
Maybe he'll throw himself into this only to find that he hates writing, or he'll write this but then won't have any interest in writing anything else (except perhaps more campaign fics, if he enjoys doing it). That's fine too; I think it's worth it just to learn that about yourself. Or maybe he already is pretty sure he has no interest in anything else, but either way he wants to write this.
Bottom line is I think he should just hurry up and do it, for himself, without really expecting to earn his fame and fortune from it. I mean, unless the only reason he wants to is for the fame and fortune (in which case, okay, I guess he probably shouldn't).
Sounds to me like he has a story and wants to tell it. I call that writing. :)Maybe he'll throw himself into this only to find that he hates writing, or he'll write this but then won't have any interest in writing anything else (except perhaps more campaign fics, if he enjoys doing it). That's fine too; I think it's worth it just to learn that about yourself. Or maybe he already is pretty sure he has no interest in anything else, but either way he wants to write this.
Bottom line is I think he should just hurry up and do it, for himself, without really expecting to earn his fame and fortune from it. I mean, unless the only reason he wants to is for the fame and fortune (in which case, okay, I guess he probably shouldn't).
Exactly,
If the story is bursting in you... write now! worry later. Post it on the net and share. Welcome all feedback, positive and negative, and if you want to write for fame and fortune...well, it will serve as practice. Even, pop rockstars gotta practice at something.
Writers write.
I remember reading about David Drake burning out two laptops a year for years.
Start now, Ultimate Gabe! Let that story out!
Greg
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Fiction based on games, especially campaigns is one of the forms that's extremely extremely hard to do well. Not even folks like Ed Greenwood have ever tried to publish their actual campaigns. mostly because tieing stories to game mechanics is a virtually guaranteed road to producing something that's unreadable.
Dragonlance's "Dragons of Autumn Twilight" is pulled from game sessions involving Tracy and Laura Hickman...
And while not a stellar book, I wouldn't call it "unreadable"...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
I've gotta agree with Lazar here. I'd go even further, and modify what Orc Bits said earlier...
If you manage to write a complete, unsolicited novel based on D&D that's actually good, it'd be a first.
As many D&D novels as I've read, I wouldn't recommend them to anybody over the age of 13. Even the Chronicles, which I loved as a kid, turned out to be lame upon second reading.
To be fair, I'm sure it is possible to write a good D&D novel, but not professionally. Companies who commission writers, like WotC, have writing guidelines and plot standards -- which translates to 'trite and predictable' on the page.
So again, I'm just emphasizing the benefits of writing for yourself.
I first read the Dragonlance Chronicles when I was 25. I went on to read that trilogy 3 times, and hope to read it again some day. I liked it so much that I got and read dozens more Dragonlance novels, even though some of them were quite inferior. I got four different editions of the campaign setting, and other DL gaming materials, without ever using them for a game, just to get a better understanding of the novels. (Maybe this proves I am only as mature as a 13-year-old. There is certainly plenty of other evidence of that. :) ) But the point is that the trilogy, despite its flaws, greatly impressed me.
That said, I agree that, as I have recently commented in another thread, translating an RPG campaign into a novel verbatim is NOT a good idea. You could take SCENES from that campaign, and/or use the basic plot of the campaign as a framework for your novel, but you must make great changes to make it work. Even Weis and Hickman did.
The novels did not start getting good until they made the decision to scrap the game system when it got in the way, which they did to the point where they virtually ditched it entirely for the Twins novels.
Too bad Salvitore never got this. You can practically see the characters rolling for saves and skill checks in his novels. Awful.
I remember Salvatore emphasizing in an interview that his novels were NOT in accordance with the game system. He said that this approach would not make for a good novel. He cited, as an example, a high-level character that got felled in one blow in one of his novels, which he said would be quite impossible in a game.
I remember Salvatore emphasizing in an interview that his novels were NOT in accordance with the game system. He said that this approach would not make for a good novel. He cited, as an example, a high-level character that got felled in one blow in one of his novels, which he said would be quite impossible in a game.
This may be true of his later novels, but his earlier work is obviously transcribed from gaming sessions. I remember a scene in the Crystal Shard that went something like:
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: Who are you? Watch yourself or I'll blah blah blah typical 80s empowered female character posturing.
[BBEG with a really scary looking face]: OOGA-BOOGA!
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: *fails will save and faints*
later...
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: You'll never get away with this! I'm not afraid of you. The forces of G will always triumph over E!
[BBEG with a really scary looking face]: OOGA-BOOGA!
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: *fails will save and faints*
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This may be true of his later novels, but his earlier work is obviously transcribed from gaming sessions. I remember a scene in the Crystal Shard that went something like:
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: Who are you? Watch yourself or I'll blah blah blah typical 80s empowered female character posturing.
[BBEG with a really scary looking face]: OOGA-BOOGA!
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: *fails will save and faints*
Problem with that is, Crystal Shard was written back when 1st edition was the name of the game, and it didn't have a "will save"...
Closest it ever came was with the Ravenloft setting's "Fear" save...
Ah. Maybe Salvatore is just a terrible writer, then.
Ah. Maybe Salvatore is just a terrible writer, then.
He's every bit as good as Tracy Hickman...
I remember a scene in the Crystal Shard that went something like:
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: Who are you? Watch yourself or I'll blah blah blah typical 80s empowered female character posturing.
[BBEG with a really scary looking face]: OOGA-BOOGA!
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: *fails will save and faints*later...
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: You'll never get away with this! I'm not afraid of you. The forces of G will always triumph over E!
[BBEG with a really scary looking face]: OOGA-BOOGA!
[strong-willed, brave female protagonist]: *fails will save and faints*
I'm sorry, but I can't remember these scenes you're describing. I guess it's been a while since I read The Crystal Shard. Who is this female protagonist you're talking about? The only possible answer I can think of is Catti-brie, and I don't remember her fainting. Could anyone tell me, please, what scenes Orc Bits is talking about?
The only possible answer I can think of is Catti-brie, and I don't remember her fainting.
It's been well over a decade since I read the Crystal Shard (and I skimmed it) but I'm pretty sure that's the character. I recall a BBEG took her prisoner and kept using some sort of fear ability to get her to shutup.
I often found myself rooting for the villains when reading Salvatore.
Well, I don't recall this happening in The Crystal Shard. I DO recall that in the next book, Streams of Silver, she got captured by Artemis Entreri and his allies. While it's true that she was afraid - only an idiot would not be, under the circumstances - she kept her head, managing to play the bad guys against each other, deepening their suspicion of one another. I think she even managed to trick at least one (possibly more?) of the bad guys to his death. She eventually escaped and joined her friends. So I can't find fault in Catti-Brie, personally.
(And as for rooting for the villains, I suspect that Salvatore WANTED you to root for Entreri, at least.)
Allow me to clarify a few things that seem to have been unclear.
The story I'm hoping to put into novel form already exists, on my group's private website, as character journals and session recaps. It started when a friend ran a 4e campaign in a homebrew setting, and all of the players involved wrote pages and pages of in-character discussion over the course of the campaign. Once it was over, I moved to a different state, and began running a campaign of my own, in the same campaign world, with a new story arc that heavily involved characters and locations from the previous campaign (though the group fell apart after only a few adventures, so this story remains unrealized). I've always loved writing, but I've been in quite a big slump for the last few years, and I've noticed that my failing seems to be my inability to bring all of my notes and thoughts together into a cohesive narrative- I'm all for writing my character's backstory and the things he's done with great detail, but when it comes to developing a plot structure, that's where I run out of ideas. I originally wanted to write a story all about my character from the initial campaign, but since I'm not great at developing plot, it ended up as a journal, rather than a story.
Then, it occurred to me that I could take the second campaign, which I had big hopes and dreams for, and turn that into a story, since that actually did have a loose plot structure (I had a dozen or so half-written adventures in my notes, each of which had its own mini-plot), so I realized that that was a better jumping-off point than any, since the original campaign was someone else's story that I was just riding in, so to speak.
I'm not simply "in this for the money", I'm in this to get this story out that's been bouncing around in my head for the last two years. But, assuming I ever get it finished, I'd love to be able to bring my story to the rest of the world- and even if fame isn't my main goal, who doesn't entertain fantasies of becoming the next J. K. Rowling?
In any case, thanks for your input, everyone. I'm planning on just writing whatever I can, and I'll worry about copyrights and whatnot later.
I'm planning on just writing whatever I can, and I'll worry about copyrights and whatnot later.
Good. That's exactly what you should do. :)
I'm planning on just writing whatever I can, and I'll worry about copyrights and whatnot later.Good. That's exactly what you should do. :)
To UltimateGabe: YAY!!! Write! Write! Write!! Go Team!
To Liane Merciel: Eeeep! I see published people! Fantastic that you post on these boards ( sorry, had to let the fan out).
Greg
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A while back, I played in/co-DMed a homebrew campaign that had lots and lots of roleplaying, backstory, and character development, and after much deliberation, I've decided I want to write a novel about it. The problem is, a lot of the backstory is intertwined with certain copyrighted elements of D&D (as well as the Greyhawk campaign setting). While I could theoretically change all of the names of the copyrighted things, I'd rather not have it just turn into yet another fantasy novel.
But if I don't want to change the names, what should I do? Is it feasible to try and get WotC to endorse a story taking place in one of their campaign settings? I'm not hoping to create the next Drizz't, but I'd like the best shot I can get.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Write it first then you can ask us to pick through it...
SQUARE COINS
Franz and his companions had reached the city of Dunsmyre well past the closing of the gates.
A cluster of fifty wagons burdened with firewood were huddled together on the well compacted turf on the north side of the road. Their animals had been un-harnessed and were simply restrained by short ropes. Many drivers sat huddled around fires. Others dozed in or under their carts.
“Finally!” Exclaimed Franz as he staggered up to the gates.
“Damn! We have missed evening-gate.” His words stirred something and he was instantly confronted by a guard stepping out of the shadow of the wall.
“No entry after evening-gate!” Finn Wildworth stared at the scruffy guard. Other noises and movement came from the shadows.
“Then we will wait with the merchants.” Finn turned his back and Franz pushed past him.
“Excuse my young companion. He knows not how things work.” Franz dropped a sack of fifty gold coins into the guard’s hand.
Kepio examined the contents and pushed the sack into his tunic. He rubbed his chin before banging twice on the gate. It cracked open enough for the companions to enter. Light spilled into the shadow to reveal a second guard with a young girl up against the stonework. He was riding her hard with a hand gripping her undergarments.
The guard who had palmed the gold went back to join his associate in their evening of sexual gratification.
Franz led his companions through the gap and a third guard, ugly and almost Orcish smiled.
“If you want a taste, it will cost fifty gold coins for the evening.” He looked out at the other two guards and licked his lips.
“No, we have to visit the markets. No time for pleasure.” Franz shook his head and pulled Finn along behind him.
“Ah! You’re Freelanders. Hah!“ He made a crude gesture that was Orc for males having sex with young boys.
”You call this Civilization?” Finn was rabid with a need to kill all three guards. The child couldn’t have been twelve.
“Ay! And it has all aspects of Civilization, even the ones you despise. Now stay alert.” Franz led them down through the streets.
Kayand who had remained silent during their entry whispered now.
“Off to your left.” He stepped into a shadow invoking his Shadow-door spell and vanished. A choke and a quick struggle came from the Alley ahead of them and Kayand stepped over the bodies and rejoined the group.
“Just the Two.” Others cowering in the shelter of the alley fell on the corpses for all they might have had.
A Scream at the end of an alley as a young man was held and pack-raped by a gang of five very large and nasty bulls.
Finn gripped his farm-sickle and Franz stopped him.
“By the Saint, the Paladins should have this City put to the impaling pole.” Franz pulled the young farmer down the street to avoid drawing attention.
“Just shut up and keep moving. My enemies will do much worse to us if they find us here after morning-gate.”
They reached the markets. Sellers peddled from hand carts and barrows. Cooked Meat that looked more like the flesh of young children abducted from the streets and their homes than any herd animal Finn had ever encountered.
He was no longer hungry.
Franz pushed a salted sausage into his hand.
“Eat this! It’s a spiced fish sausage.” Kayand nodded and chewed at his own as he handed over a selection of coin for all of them. Franz whispered to the vendor and handed over other coins. Strange square coins with the symbol of Chaos on them. The Vendor hurriedly pocketed the coins. He passed Franz a small wicker bundle wrapped in twine. It looked like a doll.
Franz now led his companions from the market place with a handful of food and a purpose. Kayand was burdened with a sack of flour and another smaller one of salt.
They hurried up an alley that took them into Wood-peddlers Way. There shops here all closed for the night. They sold firewood.
“The Carts outside are probably theirs.” Franz Stoped at a shopfront. Hanging above the shop’s door was a wicker bundle doll.
He pushed an iron rivet in the heavy wooden door and then waited.
The Shopkeeper appeared in the doorway to the astonishment of Finn.
“Seeking Wicker; I have coin.” Franz pushed a square coin marked with the symbol of Chaos into the shopkeeper’s hand and was quickly ushered in and the door closed.
The Shopkeeper led them to the back and pushed open a wall-panel providing access to a stairs going down.
They found the roar of people and the smell of blood and sweat before they had entered the room. Inside a fight in a pit was underway. A selection of vermin cheered at the violence happening below them.
A black elf, naked, bruised and bloody punched at the throat of her opponent. He collapsed as a second thug bear-hugged her from behind. The greatness of his manhood slid between her thighs.
“Maybe I give you more.” The animal fell back as she tore his future children from his body.
“Maybe I feed them to you!” She was very angry.
“She is here. Now you can kill all the vermin to your heart’s content.” Franz turned away from Finn and pulled a short dagger that sprang to full length with the twist of a handle. Finn pulled his sickle and began a furious harvest of heads.
An explosion of chaos as men and others, living and dead fell into the pit with the elf.
“About time you got here Franz.” She smiled as she picked up a weapon.
Finally! The relief of having a weapon washed over her.
“Sorry Kaiya, It took a while to find some damn coins…” Kaiya became a whirlwind of death as she danced across the backs of an increasingly great pile of corpses and jumped up onto the edge of the pit.
The shopkeeper burst through the door and was instantly confronted by Kayand.
“I’d find you a Bathhouse but we must be out before morning-gate.” Kaiya nodded.
“There is a Small Village south. They have a nice bathhouse.” Franz pulled a heavy cloak over her naked form and kissed her head.
“Foster-daughter, are you intact?” She nodded. They hadn’t managed to violate her. Apparently the difficulty had done much to up her price.
“Companions, behold my foster-daughter, Kaiya.” Kayand nodded politely. Finn struggled to stop starring at her naked beauty.
He nodded awkwardly and Kaiya smiled at his response.
“Where did you get the farm-boy and how much do you want for him?” She laughed at the young farmer’s social awkwardness as he straightened and focussed on something else.
“In Almagarda. He’s still learning his place in the world.” Franz growled at Finn.
“Put your Sickle away boy.” Franz led his daughter out of the blood-drenched nest. Kayand looked at Finn and shook his head. He pushed the young farmer to the stairs before following up.