So if you had a +9 humanbane sword and were fighting a human wouldn't that make your enhancement bonus +11? How does that work?
So if you had a +9 humanbane sword and were fighting a human wouldn't that make your enhancement bonus +11? How does that work?
The numerical bonus can never go over +5 (+7 with bane against the right creature type).
Its the effective bonus of the weapon that counts. Its a measure of "how magic" the weapon is, and non epic weapons just can't HOLD any more magic than a +10 equivalent. Even though bane gives a +2 to hit and damage, its still a +1 equivalent.
Yar.
I've been totally ninja'ed, but I'll say it again as well.
The Bane property is an effective +1 enhancement. So a +4 Human Bane weapon is effectively a +5 weapon, even though against humans it has a +6 to hit and damage (and thus counts as epic vs. DR), it's effective bonus is still only +5. It's the effective bonus that cannot exceed +10. A +5 Keen Shocking Thundering Merciful Human Bane weapon is effectively a +10 weapon, and against humans it has a +7 to hit and damage, because of the bane property (an effective +1 property), but it is still only a +10 weapon.
~P
So if you had a +9 humanbane sword and were fighting a human wouldn't that make your enhancement bonus +11? How does that work?The numerical bonus can never go over +5 (+7 with bane against the right creature type).
Sorry I guess I should have said effective bonus of +11. The bane property says the "enhancement bonus is +2 better" not +2 to hit and damage, it calls it an enhancement bonus. So it has an effective enhancement bonus of +11 but only an effective enhancement bonus of +10.
So it has an effective enhancement bonus of +11 but only an effective enhancement bonus of +10.
Read that again... :P
It's still a +10 weapon for nearly all intents and purposes.
So say we have a +5 speed keen human bane greatsword.
That's +10 (+5 plus +3 for speed plus +1 for keen plus +1 for bane). Its enhancement bonus (the "pure" bonus, i.e. the stuff that adds to attacks and damage and determines what kind of DR it can overcome) is increased by 2 against humans (so it has a +7 bonus to attack and damage, and will overcome magic, cold iron, silver, adamantine, good, evil, lawful, chaotic and epic damage reductions). But it "only" costs 200,350 (200,000 for +10, 300 for masterwork and 50 for greatsword), and it's perfectly legal and possible to have such a weapon.
It doesn't count as an epic weapon (in the old sense of epic from the Epic Level Handbook, where all weapons with a pure enhancement bonus of over +5 and a total enhancement bonus of over +10 were "epic", had to be made with epic feats, and cost 10 times as much as the formulae would indicate for non-epic weapons).
Yar.
Sorry I guess I should have said effective bonus of +11. The bane property says the "enhancement bonus is +2 better" not +2 to hit and damage, it calls it an enhancement bonus. So it has an effective enhancement bonus of +11 but only an effective enhancement bonus of +10.So if you had a +9 humanbane sword and were fighting a human wouldn't that make your enhancement bonus +11? How does that work?The numerical bonus can never go over +5 (+7 with bane against the right creature type).
No, sorry, but this is incorrect. An enhancement bonus is not the same thing as an effective enhancement bonus. An "enhancement" bonus is what gives you a bonus to hit and damage, and "effective enhancement" bonus is what sets the price and upper limit of the item.
Bane has an "effective enhancement bonus" of +1, all the time, no matter what. When it increases the weapon "enhancement bonus", it does just that, but this does NOT change the fact that it is an "effective enhancement bonus" of +1, nor does it change the items price when fighting the target of its bane.
~P
Edit: spelling
Yar.
Sorry I guess I should have said effective bonus of +11. The bane property says the "enhancement bonus is +2 better" not +2 to hit and damage, it calls it an enhancement bonus. So it has an effective enhancement bonus of +11 but only an effective enhancement bonus of +10.So if you had a +9 humanbane sword and were fighting a human wouldn't that make your enhancement bonus +11? How does that work?The numerical bonus can never go over +5 (+7 with bane against the right creature type).No, sorry, but this is incorrect. An enhancement bonus is not the same thing as an effective enhncement bonus. An "enhancent" bonus is what gives you a bonus to hit and damage, and "effective enhancement" bonus is what sets the price and upper limit of the item.
Bane has an "effective enhanceent bonus" of +1, all the time, no matter what. When it increases the weapon "enhancement bonus", it does just that, but this does NOT change the fact that it is an "effective enhancement bonus" of +1, nor does it change the items price when fighting the target of it's bane.
~P
So then, it has an enhancement bonus of +11 but only an effective bonus of +10, the difference being the one used to determine cost. And the cost is what matters when a paladin's divine bond ability is figuring out how magic it can make the paladin's weapon. That makes all kinds of sense.
PS: I notice you misspelled enhancement three different ways, and that cracked me up. Yar
So it has an effective enhancement bonus of +11 but only an effective enhancement bonus of +10.Read that again... :P
I'm aware of what I said
Yar!
Glad my err's gave you a smile. ^_^
I'm actually working at one of my jobs as I post, so I'm balancing getting a post in while mixing and recording (audio & video) for a band festival, leveling the mics, and controlling the lighting board all at the same time. I simply didn't have the chance to copy-paste from word to do a spell check.
^_^;;
~P
Yar.
Wow, having a chance to go back, those were some terrible spelling mistakes. *shudder* I couldn't take it. They've been fixed.
Back on topic:
So then, it has an enhancement bonus of +11 but only an effective bonus of +10, the difference being the one used to determine cost. And the cost is what matters when a paladin's divine bond ability is figuring out how magic it can make the paladin's weapon. That makes all kinds of sense.
Yup. That's pretty much it. Though what Ravingdork said about the "enhancement" bonus being limited to +5 (+7 with bane) is true. Some people are very picky about the difference in wording between "enhancement bonus of +11" and a "modified enhancement bonus of +7" (the most you can get if you have a +5 human bane weapon - which is "effectively" a +6 weapon).
~P
Yar.
I had completely forgotten about the Furious property.
Thanks for the catch.
~P
Yar!
Glad my err's gave you a smile. ^_^
I'm actually working at one of my jobs as a post, so I'm balancing getting a post in while mixing and recording (audio & video) for a band festival, leveling the mics, and controlling the lighting board all at the same time. I simply didn't have the chance to copy-paste from word to do a spell check.
^_^;;
~P
Whoa, we work in very similar fields. Also, Firefox has built in spellcheck (without it I never would have seen your mistakes).
So if you had a +9 humanbane sword and were fighting a human wouldn't that make your enhancement bonus +11? How does that work?
+5 is max enchantment bonus.
+10 is max Weapon Bonus.........
Ask your DM = A new DM might allow a +5 Human Bane (+6 weapon bonus) sword to do +7 to hit and damage. Some of us old DM will stick with +5 max to hit and damage allowed, hard limit (yes, such a weapon would be redundant).
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Damage Resistance (page 566), looks like it refers to the Max Enchantment bonus.
Magic item cost, look like it refers to the Max weapon bonus.
(BUT) = The magic item section also keeps referring the the Max weapon bonus as enchantment bonus. Has the rule that the creator needs to be caster level = Bonus x 3 the enchantment bonus. The line between Total weapon bonus and Enchantment bonus is blurred, depending on how you read the rules.
(BUT)
Page 468 = Table 15-8: Weapons = Note 2 "A weapon can't have an enhancement bonus higher than +5. Use these line to determine price when special ability are added in.
This leads me to think. That + bonus for magic item special effects like (Flaming +1 bonus), is only used to refer to max weapon bonus, and is NOT a enchantment bonus.
...
I am pointing this out because, i have seen many people on the magic boards. Refer to the Total max bonus as the enchantment bonus when trying to figure up the minimum caster level of the item. Which is incorrect.
The minimum Caster level to create the magic item is Enchantment bonus x 3, or Caster level of effect (Flaming is CL 10) = Which ever is higher.
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+9 Human bane sword would not be possible.
As +5 is max enhancement bonus a weapon is allowed. Although you can add +5 weapon bonus in magic effect to the weapon up to +10 Max Weapon bonuses.
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Lastly what is, or is not an Epic weapon is up to your DM.
Ask your DM.
A new DM might allow a +5 Human Bane (+6 weapon bonus) sword to do +7 to hit and damage.
So I'm a new DM? Because I'll totally let that weapon give you a +7 bonus to attack and damage, and even count as epic for DR.
+5 is max enchantment bonus.
+10 is max Weapon Bonus.........
Ask your DM = A new DM might allow a +5 Human Bane (+6 weapon bonus) sword to do +7 to hit and damage. Some of us old DM will stick with +5 max to hit and damage allowed, hard limit (yes, such a weapon would be redundant).
........
Well I neither would describe myself as a new GM, but would allow the bane to work for a weapon, whatever it's enhancement bonus.
There is surely a cap of a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon, bane doesn't change this. "Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus". The actual enhancement bonus is +5, but in certain events it becomes +2 better, which is +7. Allowing it does disregard the rules.
+5 is max enchantment bonus.
+10 is max Weapon Bonus.........
Ask your DM = A new DM might allow a +5 Human Bane (+6 weapon bonus) sword to do +7 to hit and damage. Some of us old DM will stick with +5 max to hit and damage allowed, hard limit (yes, such a weapon would be redundant).
........
Well I neither would describe myself as a new GM, but would allow the bane to work for a weapon, whatever it's enhancement bonus.
There is surely a cap of a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon, bane doesn't change this. "Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus". The actual enhancement bonus is +5, but in certain events it becomes +2 better, which is +7. Allowing it does disregard the rules.
I don't know about that anymore. They errata'd it so you can't have more than +10 thru situational modifiers yes?
So why doesn't that apply to the limit of +5 enhancement? The wording is similar enough that it could be argued that it is now illegal for bane to make it more than +5. At the very least, it's muddied the waters. :(
+5 is max enchantment bonus.
+10 is max Weapon Bonus.........
Ask your DM = A new DM might allow a +5 Human Bane (+6 weapon bonus) sword to do +7 to hit and damage. Some of us old DM will stick with +5 max to hit and damage allowed, hard limit (yes, such a weapon would be redundant).
........
Well I neither would describe myself as a new GM, but would allow the bane to work for a weapon, whatever it's enhancement bonus.
There is surely a cap of a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon, bane doesn't change this. "Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus". The actual enhancement bonus is +5, but in certain events it becomes +2 better, which is +7. Allowing it does disregard the rules.
I don't know about that anymore. They errata'd it so you can't have more than +10 thru situational modifiers yes?
So why doesn't that apply to the limit of +5 enhancement? The wording is similar enough that it could be argued that it is now illegal for bane to make it more than +5. At the very least, it's muddied the waters. :(
That's really what I was trying to say. I think the people who make these calls go with their gut reaction and try to make the "good" call but don't really see the ramifications.