Limits on Dancing Flame ability?

[Mike J]

This question is about the Dancing Flame class ability from Advanced Player's Guide pg 142. As written, the part of the rule that covers moving non-magical fires is pretty much wide open. Has there been anything official that limits the ability or at least specifies some of the consequences from using it?

Some of the question that have already come up from it:
Do you need line of sight or line of effect to the fire and/or the destination?

Do elemental (aka non-mgical) fire creatures get a saving throw to avoid being moved by this? Does that movement provoke an attack of opportunity if it causes them to move out of a threatened square?

What is the maximum range? Can the ability be used across planes of existance/different dimensions/etc. (Can I move a non-magical fire that is on another plane 30 feet)?

Is there really no limit to the size of the fire that can be moved? Could a creature move the surface of the sun 30 feet out into space where there is no fuel and essentially extinguish it?

I know the easy answer is just ban the class or make up some limits. However, the current game I'm in is "rules as written" only. So, I'm hoping for something official.

[BobChuck]

EDIT: my post was, well, not mean, exactly, but very snarky. I'm cleaning it up.

It's just... the bit about putting out the sun set me off. I apologize.

Is this what you are talking about? The page number was a very nice touch, and better than what most people provide, but I don't have my book with me.

Actually, now that I think about it, I have no idea where my copy of the APG is. I wonder if I should be concerned.

Anyway. Standard rules apply to this ability, like they do to every other ability. Line of sight/effect applies. Why wouldn't it? Abilities follow the Rules as Written unless otherwise noted. There's nothing here that says the Fire Mage doesn't need Line of Sight, so he does.

The bit about Fire Creatures is... well, okay, I can see how this would be confusing.

A "Fire Creature" is not a non-magical source of flame", so it fails. Incidentally, a "Fire Creature" is not a magical source of flame, either - it is a Fire Creature.
Elementals are not "magically animated elements". They aren't just "naturally animated elements". They are basically puedo-souls given corporal form.
Let me put it another way: Are you a magical source of meat, a non-magical source of meat, or a meat creature? Why should the answer be different, just because we're talking about "rock" or "fire" or "magnesium" instead?

The ability does not appear to have a "max range", which is pretty silly. Leave it alone unless there's an actual poblem in game with this; in which case, cap it at medium.

But I have to ask: putting out the sun? Really? Is this a theoretical discussion, or is there an actual player out there who's tried this?

I mean... he can do it, what, 1/2 level per day? And he can move how much? And the volume of the sun is how large? Every fire wizard in the world could spend their entire lives doing this, and I doubt the Sun God/Goddess would even notice.

If he/she does, of course, good-bye spellcasters. I know it's a cliche, but "rocks fall, everyone dies" is sometimes justified. Maybe it should be "meat falls, everyone dies" - don't want to discriminate.