Dog Companion 4th level Stats

[clparis]

I am going to a con next weekend and foresee my range going to 4th level. I took Boon Companion at 3rd level so I could have a 4th level companion. The companion will be a dog (basically my gnomes riding dog becomes his companion). So, I would like someone to verify my calculations and answer a few questions for society play.

My understanding is that the stats my dog had vanish and I now have new stats.
Which are:
STR: 18 (including lvl 4 +1)
DEX: 16 (including lvl 4 +1)
CON: 17
INT: 3 (I put my lvl 4 ability score here)
WIS: 12
CHA: 6
AC: 15 (10+dex(3)+natural(2))
Fort: 7
Reflx: 7
Will: 2
BAB: 3
CMB: 7
CMD: 18
Bite Attack Bonus: 7 Damage: 1d6+6
Race Senses: Low Light, Scent (+4 to track), Perception (+8)
Race Modifiers: +4 Acrobatics when jumping, +4 Survival when tracking by scent

My understanding from reading the boards that the dog loses the trip attack, feats (skill focus) and skills (Acrobatics +6 (+14 jumping), Perception +8, Survival +1 (+5 scent tracking)) that it had as a riding dog. Although, I get to pick 2 feats and any skills.

So, here are my questions:
1. HP: at 4 lvl it is 4d8, so does that mean the HP is 17 or is there a accumulation that he would have gotten progressing through the levels to 4th lvl?
2. Does it lose all of the training it had to be riding dog? Meaning would I have to retrain it to ride it?
3. What feats do I have to take so it can use leather armor?

Thanks for the help.

[Tom Baumbach]

You can't take Boon Companion at 3rd level because your ranger doesn't have the animal companion class ability yet. The earliest you can take that feat as a ranger is 5th level.

[clparis]

Tom Baumbach wrote:

You can't take Boon Companion at 3rd level because your ranger doesn't have the animal companion class ability yet. The earliest you can take that feat as a ranger is 5th level.

Maybe I am misinterpreting this but the Seekers of Secrets reads:

Boon Companion
Your bond with your animal companion or familiar is unusually close.
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an
animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. The
effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a
different animal companion or familiar.

Since the ranger class has this ability I can take the feat at anytime. If it read like the Improved Familiar feat (Ability to acquire a familiar) then I would agree with you but that is not the case. I may be wrong in this but that is how I read it.

[Tom Baumbach]

You must have the ability in order to meet the prerequisite. It's the same reason druids can't take Natural Spell until 5th level.

[BigNorseWolf]

The ranger CLASS has the ability. Your ranger does not.

[clparis]

Tom Baumbach wrote:

You must have the ability in order to meet the prerequisite. It's the same reason druids can't take Natural Spell until 5th level.

Okay but spells are different. Rangers can't use any spells until 4th level and only bonus spells at that point. However, he can use a wand without a check roll for any spell that is in the ranger spell list wither it is ever cast or not. That is how rangers use healing wands. The same applies here with prerequisite in that is a class ability. Even if I never took a companion it is still a ranger class ability thus a feat I can use. It would be like a barbarian taking extra rage which requires a rage class ability but never using rage. It would be a waste of a feat but it could be done.

[Quandary]

Well, WANDS are different. Wands care if you have it on your class(es)` spell list, not if you have access to those spell levels.
Said Feats care if you HAVE those CLASS ABILITIES, not whether they on your list of class abilities you may eventually gain.
By your logic, if you have 1 level in a class that grants certain bonus feats at high level, you would qualify as having those Feats for other Feats which require them as a Pre-Req... Or ANY 3/4 or Full BAB 1st level character could take any Feat with a 15-BAB Pre-Req, since their Class eventually grants that.

The REAL equivalent to your Barbarian example would be waiting until you have the Animal Companion Class Ability at the proper level, taking Boon Companion Feat becaue you now qualify, but then never `summoning` a Companion, thus being `a waste`.

You can`t ignore Pre-Requisites. So keep using vanilla Riding Dog stats.

[clparis]

I am still not sure about this but I will bow to wisdom of the board. So I wait until 5th level and end up with a 5th level companion. It doesn't change my original questions.

1. HP: at 5 lvl it is 5d8, so does that mean the HP is 22 or is there a accumulation that he would have gotten progressing through the levels to 5th lvl?
2. Does it lose all of the training it had to be riding dog? Meaning would I have to retrain it to ride it?
3. What feats do I have to take so it can use leather armor?

And I will add a fourth question.
4. Do you add the STR/DEX +1 once or at every level (I am guessing once but just checking)?

Thanks.

[clparis]

Quandary wrote:

Well, WANDS are different. Wands care if you have it on your class(es)` spell list, not if you have access to those spell levels.

Said Feats care if you HAVE those CLASS ABILITIES, not whether they on your list of class abilities you may eventually gain.
By your logic, if you have 1 level in a class that grants certain bonus feats at high level, you would qualify as having those Feats for other Feats which require them as a Pre-Req... Or ANY 3/4 or Full BAB 1st level character could take any Feat with a 15-BAB Pre-Req, since their Class eventually grants that.

The REAL equivalent to your Barbarian example would be waiting until you have the Animal Companion Class Ability at the proper level, taking Boon Companion Feat becaue you now qualify, but then never `summoning` a Companion, thus being `a waste`.

You can`t ignore Pre-Requisites. So keep using vanilla Riding Dog stats.

Okay, I'm sorry but I have to comment on this. If the pre-req requires a feat then yes you have to have that feat and the same is true for stat, skills, bab, etc. I have no problem with that.

But a feat is not a class ability. You have to take feats, you don't instantly have them when you pick your class. I always assumed that feats and skills are learned as your character has adventures. Thus, pre-reqs for Acrobatic Steps requires you to have a DEX level high enough to pull off the move and Nimble Moves feat that shows you already have trained in this area. Where as the Alignment Channel feat's pre-reqs of Ability to Channel Energy do not require you to channel energy only have the class ability to do so.

So, I go back to the wording of the Boon Companion pre-req: Animal companion or familiar class ability. If this had said Must have an Animal companion or familiar or it read Animal Companion or Familiar level of 1 or higher, then there is no issue it would have to wait until level 5. That is not what it says. It is a class ability thus if it is part of the class then it should be available at anytime. This feat was created to help the ranger have a better companion, so, it only makes since that the feat be taken at 3rd level giving the ranger the best companion from the start.

I will still hold off on the feat until 5th level, I just had to respond.

[jjaamm]

clparis wrote:

I am still not sure about this but I will bow to wisdom of the board. So I wait until 5th level and end up with a 5th level companion. It doesn't change my original questions.

1. HP: at 5 lvl it is 5d8, so does that mean the HP is 22 or is there a accumulation that he would have gotten progressing through the levels to 5th lvl?
2. Does it lose all of the training it had to be riding dog? Meaning would I have to retrain it to ride it?
3. What feats do I have to take so it can use leather armor?

And I will add a fourth question.
4. Do you add the STR/DEX +1 once or at every level (I am guessing once but just checking)?

Thanks.

Do you have copy of the guide to play? it will help with some of your questions.

5th 5 +3 +4 +4 +1 5 3 +2 +1 2 looks like 5d8 for hp's. for pfs you use 5 for each level cause AC's dont get full at 1st like a pc. so 25+ any con

as for tricks, you will have to start from scratch. than you get to try and teach it one per mod you do- this rule sucks i know. there is a thread on it in the PFS section. I think i read somewhere that riding dogs and ponys/horses keep there riding abilities. have to look that one up again

light armor feat or take barding that has no penalties. think leather works here

no, just at 4th and again when it comes up on the chart

[LazarX]

clparis wrote:

It is a class ability thus if it is part of the class then it should be available...

But you have to HAVE the class ability for to meet the qualifier. You are not trained in every one of your class abilities form 1-20 at first level. This also comes into play when qualifiing for PrC's that require a specific class ability... Such as rogue sneak attack 3d6. If the class requires it... then you're waiting until you're a 5th level rogue.

So you have to settle for the standard companion at 4th level, with the option to upgrade if you get the feat at 5th.

[jjaamm]

go to [url=http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderSociety/general/pFSRulesForAnimalCompanionsAreBroken&page=1#2[/url].

okay tried to link to thread, but been awhile so dont know what im doing wrong

[Thomas LeBlanc]

jjaamm wrote:

go to link.

okay tried to link to thread, but been awhile so dont know what im doing wrong

Fixed, you forgot a ] after the last part of the url and then text in between url tags

[Karui Kage]

If I recall, for HP you actually take the average of the die (4.5 in the case of d8) and round down. A 5d8 creature would thus have 22.5, or 22 hp. Companions and such don't get the 'always take 0.5 higher then average' benefit that the PCs get.