I don't know, from the previous fluff on the Gorilla King, the savage and violent effective ruler of a huge jungle, I expected a bit more. Maybe Boomer's "The Blood-Slicked Mantle" in Wayfinder #1 is leading me on. Anyway, it seemed kinda weak to me that he was just
an unexceptional level 14 fighter, and the encounter with him is just a "one PC must beat him down" setup like he's just that Shoanti yokel from Curse of the Crimson Throne. My sixth level PCs have damage output like this guy.
Anyway, for all the buildup, I really wasn't impressed with Ruthazek's depiction in Vaults of Madness. How could it be something very special? How would you change how the Gorilla King is employed in this adventure so he doesn't seem like a random mob?
Which makes it all the stranger, honestly. The Rise/Return of the Gorilla King campaign hook is pretty good, but I think the PCs would be a bit underwhelmed. "Him again? We beat him down four levels ago!"
My plan for expanding the Gorilla King would be to make his troop a bit more destructive--have tribes the PCs befriended come to shelter with them to avoid their wrath, pick fights in random encounters sort of thing. The motivation for the Gorilla King's visit is to obtain a city for his heir; as Ruthazek has no intentions of dying by violence, he's produced a new Gorilla Prince in the more traditional fashion. The PCs will be doing him a service, either by being the trial of blood that proves his child is vicious enough to rule a city, or proving him too weak to be worth bothering with. My vision of the Gorilla King is as cultivated, but cruel; he's very much going to enjoy needling the paladin about how much blood he has spilled in the name of "good".
Personally, I've always been concerned about the great leader of a nation having a
Personally, I've always been concerned about the great leader of a nation having a ** spoiler omitted **
Put a martial law on magic. :)
More seriously:You do have a point, and I make it a point to boost all the will saves of important NPC's even if it is only dropping a feat for Iron Will.
When I eventually get to this section, I was thinking of substituting the King for a Champion in the fight. I'd rather leave the King as a mystery. So the King will give them an option of fighting one of his champions, they may or may not beat the champion. However, the king learns a bit more about the PCs, and still keeps his aura of power.
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Personally, I've always been concerned about the great leader of a nation having a ** spoiler omitted **
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Though not specifically for SS, there have been a couple times where the PCs just blew through a monster that had a huge build-up and was suppose to be a BBEG -- always because I didn't have time to properly prepare.
Solution (occassional use only): When my Players were unsatisfied with their anticlimactic BBEG fight, I had the monster, upon defeat, break down into snow-melt, gave the PC casters a Spellcraft check and let them learn that the thing they just fought was a Simulacrum and not the real deal.
I don't see why you couldn't do something similar here if your PCs have waltzed through what was suppose to be a fun, challenging encounter. Not a Simulacrum, cuz that's for casters, but you could come up with something and let the PCs deal with the "real" Gorilla King -- and his improved Will Save -- a session or two later.
If you want him to be BAD, make him a 14th level inquisitor instead.
I'm thinking about making a Bar-Igura be either the gorilla king or the gorilla king's champion that the PCs fight.
Bar-Igura's are demonic ape-creatures most notable for their activities in the Savage Tide adventure path. I think something like Olangru would make a very good intimidating monster for the party to face. Especially if you can build up their constant tormenting and gruesome acts of terror far in advance.
Ive decided to make him an inquisitor, I may go justicar, not sure yet. Get him some demonic domain abilities, he's appointed by a demon-god to the position, he should have some divine related abilities.
Which makes it all the stranger, honestly. The Rise/Return of the Gorilla King campaign hook is pretty good, but I think the PCs would be a bit underwhelmed. "Him again? We beat him down four levels ago!"
Yeah exactly! Assuming they didn't kill him outright in the duel; he
I like the idea of making this guy the heir apparent or having him be a head goon.
And just in terms of color, too... I would expect being in the presence of the Gorilla King to be a lurid, brown-pants moment, and it's just not impressive in the way I'd hoped.
Mr.Jacobs mentioned something about the last booking making up for it. My local FLGS does not have the last book yet, so if any of you have it does the last book make up for the fact that the fight is not what it is hyped up to be?
I plan to run this in about 8 months to a year from now. I normally have everything done well in advance so while I am in the player seat for the next few months I will be setting up this so that when it is time to DM again I am ready.
I think a few things could have been done differently. Add his levels to an advanced dire ape would be my suggestion, rather than just give him the appearance and possibly racial modifiers.
When I eventually get to this section, I was thinking of substituting the King for a Champion in the fight. I'd rather leave the King as a mystery. So the King will give them an option of fighting one of his champions, they may or may not beat the champion. However, the king learns a bit more about the PCs, and still keeps his aura of power.
exactly my take on it
I love the feast with him, I think my gorilla king will speak like Don Vito Corleone :-)
Mr.Jacobs mentioned something about the last booking making up for it. My local FLGS does not have the last book yet, so if any of you have it does the last book make up for the fact that the fight is not what it is hyped up to be?
I plan to run this in about 8 months to a year from now. I normally have everything done well in advance so while I am in the player seat for the next few months I will be setting up this so that when it is time to DM again I am ready.
Well, the last book really just gives "after Serpent's Skull" possibilities, and one is that the Gorilla King becomes a bigger menace. It does have a much buffer stat block for him as a nascent demon lord (CR 23), so sure, I reckon you can just retrofit and use it instead of the wuss one in the original adventure. But its flavor is more "I have a horde of nalfeshnees, vrocks, and glabrezus" with him which isn't very gorilla-ey. You can refit it to do bar-lgura and other more apey things I reckon. It does give more raw material to rejigger the original appearance.
Mr.Jacobs mentioned something about the last booking making up for it. My local FLGS does not have the last book yet, so if any of you have it does the last book make up for the fact that the fight is not what it is hyped up to be?
I plan to run this in about 8 months to a year from now. I normally have everything done well in advance so while I am in the player seat for the next few months I will be setting up this so that when it is time to DM again I am ready.
Well, the last book really just gives "after Serpent's Skull" possibilities, and one is that the Gorilla King becomes a bigger menace. It does have a much buffer stat block for him as a nascent demon lord (CR 23), so sure, I reckon you can just retrofit and use it instead of the wuss one in the original adventure. But its flavor is more "I have a horde of nalfeshnees, vrocks, and glabrezus" with him which isn't very gorilla-ey. You can refit it to do bar-lgura and other more apey things I reckon. It does give more raw material to rejigger the original appearance.
I don't plan on going past the AP so I think a tougher Gorilla King is in order.
I'm thinking about making a Bar-Igura be either the gorilla king or the gorilla king's champion that the PCs fight.
Bar-Igura's are demonic ape-creatures most notable for their activities in the Savage Tide adventure path. I think something like Olangru would make a very good intimidating monster for the party to face. Especially if you can build up their constant tormenting and gruesome acts of terror far in advance.
I miss the Bar-lgura. I miss them a lot. I think they, along with the Ultrodaemons, are the outsiders I miss the most from D&D.
Incidentally, should I be concerned about spoilering things about the Gorilla King in a thread about the Gorilla King's weakness-ness?
I'm thinking about making a Bar-Igura be either the gorilla king or the gorilla king's champion that the PCs fight.
Bar-Igura's are demonic ape-creatures most notable for their activities in the Savage Tide adventure path. I think something like Olangru would make a very good intimidating monster for the party to face. Especially if you can build up their constant tormenting and gruesome acts of terror far in advance.
I miss the Bar-lgura. I miss them a lot. I think they, along with the Ultrodaemons, are the outsiders I miss the most from D&D.
Incidentally, should I be concerned about spoilering things about the Gorilla King in a thread about the Gorilla King's weakness-ness?
I think that players should know to stay out of this thread by the title alone, and those that come lurking won't by stopped by a spoiler.
Random Thoughts:
The Gorilla King has no planned appearance later on so if he dies it should not matter. At least that is how I understood it so there is no need to preserve him, just make it a good fight
I was also thinking, what should a DM do if the party has no real character type that specialize in HP damage. I am suggesting it be a caster duel. In other words make "your" Gorilla King whatever he needs to be to live up to his reputation.
Another idea is to drop the duel from the story and have him take on the entire party like any other boss fight.
I don't plan on going past the AP so I think a tougher Gorilla King is in order.Mr.Jacobs mentioned something about the last booking making up for it. My local FLGS does not have the last book yet, so if any of you have it does the last book make up for the fact that the fight is not what it is hyped up to be?
I plan to run this in about 8 months to a year from now. I normally have everything done well in advance so while I am in the player seat for the next few months I will be setting up this so that when it is time to DM again I am ready.
Well, the last book really just gives "after Serpent's Skull" possibilities, and one is that the Gorilla King becomes a bigger menace. It does have a much buffer stat block for him as a nascent demon lord (CR 23), so sure, I reckon you can just retrofit and use it instead of the wuss one in the original adventure. But its flavor is more "I have a horde of nalfeshnees, vrocks, and glabrezus" with him which isn't very gorilla-ey. You can refit it to do bar-lgura and other more apey things I reckon. It does give more raw material to rejigger the original appearance.
I think the CR 23 version might overshoot the mark. He has a real "destroy the whole party" feel to him.
If he get's killed off, have him reincarnated by the demon lord, perhaps as one of the winged apes (or if you are feeling nasty, add in the half-fiend template). I like the idea of having him have 14 fighter levels on top of the dire ape (or winged ape) stats.
I think the CR 23 version might overshoot the mark. He has a real "destroy the whole party" feel to him.
I was not saying I was going to use the CR 23 version. My point was that if he only gets used once the CR 14 version will be buffed up to make him a memorable fight.
I think the CR 23 version might overshoot the mark. He has a real "destroy the whole party" feel to him.
There is also the baregara, a CR 12 ape demon in the last Serpent's Skull volume. A very effective Gorilla King stat block could come from replacing the 16 outsider HD from that statblock with 14 fighter levels, as if he had a 'baregara template' added to him. Even if that's too mechanically out there for DM's comfort zones, adding a couple of those as enforcers to the gorilla king would make a fairly heavy duty encounter.
I was also kind of disappointed in the gorilla king, but then I remembered that at this point in the AP the pc's have become a power to be reckoned with themselves.
My biggest gripe is with why they choose to use the gorilla king at all. He serves no purpose to the plot of the AP and is only there as a filler encounter which could easily be replaced with something more suitable to the plot.
I rebuilt Ruthazek in Hero Lab as a fiendish dire ape sixteenth level barbarian and he makes me wet my pants in fear.
I was also kind of disappointed in the gorilla king, but then I remembered that at this point in the AP the pc's have become a power to be reckoned with themselves.
My biggest gripe is with why they choose to use the gorilla king at all. He serves no purpose to the plot of the AP and is only there as a filler encounter which could easily be replaced with something more suitable to the plot.
I have only been skimming the books so if he is just a road block I will probably remove him and have him replaced with a serpentfolk who has been harassing the party for some time by proxy. He will decide to kill them personally after the PC's take out all of his hired help.
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I rebuilt Ruthazek in Hero Lab as a fiendish dire ape sixteenth level barbarian and he makes me wet my pants in fear.
Very Cool. What rage powers did you give him, and did you build him off a specific archetype? I've tinkered a bit with the G. King, rebuilding him as an awakened dire ape antipaladin 11 with the obedience to demon lord feat from the Lords of Chaos PF Chronicle.
Also gave his armor the Unrighteous property from the APG, because the thought of a Huge, 4-armed, armored ape-antipaladin brings me to a very happy place.
RUTHAZEK CR 19
Male Ape, Dire Barbarian 16
CE Large Animal
Raging, and with Power Attack turned on:
Init +3; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +15
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DEFENSE
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AC 22, touch 12, flat-footed 19. . (+4 armor, +3 Dex, -1 size, +6 natural, +2 deflection)
hp 311 (16d12+4d8+160)
Fort +22, Ref +12, Will +13
Defensive Abilities Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=20), Trap Sense +5; DR 10/good, 5/—; Resist cold 15, fire 15; SR 24
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OFFENSE
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Spd 40 ft., Climbing (30 feet)
Melee Bite (Ape, Dire) +23 (1d6+20/20/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Ape, Dire) +23 x2 (1d6+20/19-20/x2) and
. . Gore (Fiend Totem, Lesser) +23 (2d6+20/20/x2) and
. . Rend x2 (Ape, Dire) +23 x2 (1d4+30/20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d4+20/20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks Fiend Totem, Lesser, Overbearing Advance (+10) (DC 15), Overbearing Onslaught, Smite Good (1/day)
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STATISTICS
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Str 24/30, Dex 16, Con 18/26, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 12
Base Atk +19; CMB +30 (+34 Overrunning); CMD 43 (45 vs. Overrun)
Feats Cornugon Smash, Elephant Stomp, Greater Overrun, Improved Critical: Claw, Improved Natural Attack: Claw x2 (Ape, Dire), Improved Overrun, Iron Will, Power Attack -5/+10, Raging Vitality, Skill Focus: Perception
Skills Acrobatics +15, Climb +23, Fly +1, Intimidate +17, Knowledge: Nature +5, Perception +15, Stealth +5, Survival +15, Swim +18
Languages
SQ Come and Get Me (Ex), Fast Movement +10 (Ex), Fearless Rage (Ex), Fiend Totem (Su), Increase Damage Reduction (Ex), Indomitable Will (Ex), Rage (38 rounds/day) (Ex), Unexpected Strike (1/rage) (Ex)
Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Bracers of Armor, +4, Ring of Protection, +2
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Climbing (30 feet) You have a Climb speed.
Come and Get Me (Ex) Enemies get +4 to hit and damage you, but attacks provoke AoO from you
Damage Reduction (10/good) You have Damage Reduction against all except Good attacks.
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Damage Resistance, Cold (15) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Cold attacks.
Damage Resistance, Fire (15) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Elephant Stomp You may attack an overrun foe rather than moving through.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Fearless Rage (Ex) While raging, you are immune to the shaken and frightened conditions.
Fiend Totem (Su) While raging, those striking you in melee take 1d6 damage.
Fiend Totem, Lesser (Su) Gain d8 gore attack while raging
Greater Overrun +2 to overrun, targets provoke AoO if they are knocked prone.
Improved Overrun You Overrun at +2, and your opponent cannot choose to avoid / block you.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=20) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 20+.
Increase Damage Reduction (Ex) While raging, your DR increases by 1.
Indomitable Will (Ex) While in rage, a barbarian of 14th level or higher gains a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, including the morale bonus on Will saves she also receives during her rage.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Overbearing Advance (+10) (DC 15) (Ex) Overrun maneuvers also deal STR bonus in damage
Overbearing Onslaught (Ex) You can overrun more than one target per round.
Power Attack -5/+10 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rage (38 rounds/day) (Ex) +6 Str, +6 Con, +3 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Smite Good (1/day) (Su) +1 to hit, +20 to damage.
Spell Resistance (24) You have Spell Resistance.
Trap Sense +5 (Ex) +5 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Unexpected Strike (1/rage) (Ex) Once per rage, gain an attack of opportunity against someone who moves into your threatened area.
I decided the gorilla-ey thing to do would be for him to totally be bowling people over, so the combo of Improved Overrun, Greater Overrun, Elephant Stomp, Overbearing Advance, and Overbearing Onslaught means he can just bowl over most of an opposing force in a round. Fiend Totem seemed like the most appropriate, he even gets horns like Anghazan has (gore attack!).
I spent a number of the powers on increasing DR and saves and no fear and stuff, though with his SR you might forgo that and add some Hurling powers for the full Donkey Kong experience.
Anyway, this gorilla king says I WILL KILL YOU. His stats aren't the same as the book, but that shouldn't change much, I was having trouble figuring out how to use Hero Lab to make a animal-base character, I had to spend a lot of point buy points on a non-2 int.
I know this thread is a done deal, but I just was thinking about a fun alternative to the gorilla king's stats as in the book.
After seeing this youtube video of a disney classic, I was thinking about editing the gorilla king/heir to be a beefed up King Louie from the Jungle Book.
I don't have him statted out yet.. but conceptually, I'm thinking Ol' King Louie finally got his wish and learned the secret to make fire...through various demonic rituals! King Louie became OBSESSED with flame and a master of destruction.
I'm thinking Dire Ape(Orangutan) Barbarian/Oracle of Flame/Rage Prophet.
Tactically, start with fireballs and other fire spells, then rage and trample/over-run like how Ernest imagined as best he can with fire-elemental totem powers.
He loves dance, song, fire, destruction, forbidden knowledge(especially concerning "man-magics" that make him more powerful), lavish meals, and sacrifice (with fire, obviously).
If you are doing this, it is morally required that King Louie calls any gnome or halfling in the party a "man-cub".
I'm also thinking about the location of conflict is enchanted with a permanent aura of "irresistable dance" that affects both sides.
Regardless of whether or not it is the king or a heir, I think this would make quite a memorable encounter.
I'm thinking about making a Bar-Igura be either the gorilla king or the gorilla king's champion that the PCs fight.
Bar-Igura's are demonic ape-creatures most notable for their activities in the Savage Tide adventure path. I think something like Olangru would make a very good intimidating monster for the party to face. Especially if you can build up their constant tormenting and gruesome acts of terror far in advance.
Ive decided to make him an inquisitor, I may go justicar, not sure yet. Get him some demonic domain abilities, he's appointed by a demon-god to the position, he should have some divine related abilities.
Pretty smart. Inquisitors make great kings, especially kings chosen by a god. They have all the attributes to be a bad to the bone king. Never realized how tough they were until I played one. Inquisitor is one the most versatile, hyped up power classes I've yet seen. Love the concept too much to care about balance though.