So, for the reasons known only to me, I'm playing with building a "monk" type fighter. I won't bore y'all much with peculiarities of the build at this point, but I did have a couple of questions relating to unarmed attacks and the like.
The question plaguing me right now is, is a non-monk with Improved Unarmed Strike assumed to be using Natural Attacks, thus qualifying for multiple penalty-free attacks per round, or would he still require Two-Weapon Fighting or something akin to it to get extra attacks? This would also follow into the second question - eligibility for Improved Natural Attack?
Unarmed strikes are not considered natural attacks.
This is what's confusing me:
SRD Sayeth:
"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
The pointer to "See natural attacks" is kinda throwing me off.
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Natural physical weapons are claws, bite, tail, etc.
Think on it like this: "Natural" is meant to indicate "weapons you're born with." While a human can learn to use his fists and knees as weapons, the lethality of those body parts is not innate, not natural.
So, with training, your unarmed attacks (those fists and knees) allow you to act as though you were armed, but they do not approach the innateness of a natural attack.
also for mechanics purposes if you can make iterative attacks with a weapon (ie +6/+1) then thevweapon isn't considered a natural attack.
Rabbit Trailing the thread here a bit, but why the hell not...
Can a creature with natural attacks take monk levels and make unarmed strikes with his natural weapons?
Please tell me no, my GM doesn't need to start creating creatures with Ki Focus Bite+Grab+Maneuver Training, or something crazy like that.
Also it just occurred to me that I would make an evil GM
Rabbit Trailing the thread here a bit, but why the hell not...
Can a creature with natural attacks take monk levels and make unarmed strikes with his natural weapons?
Please tell me no, my GM doesn't need to start creating creatures with Ki Focus Bite+Grab+Maneuver Training, or something crazy like that.Also it just occurred to me that I would make an evil GM
Nope he can't. It would go off of unarmed strike damage, and not the damage of the weapon anyway.
Thanks for explanations & clarifications, everyone!
Unarmed strikes are not considered natural attacks.
Not quite:
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
This is specific to the monk. Any other character with Improved Unarmed Strike does not get this benefit.
However, as mentioned above, even a monk cannot take Improved Natural Attack, so it all works out the same in the end.
Good catch. I'm still not sure why that line exists.
So far, the only uses my group have found for the "natural weapon" clause are for magic fang -- not great -- and strong jaw.
Good catch. I'm still not sure why that line exists.This is specific to the monk. Any other character with Improved Unarmed Strike does not get this benefit.
However, as mentioned above, even a monk cannot take Improved Natural Attack, so it all works out the same in the end.
it is there so they can have spells li,e magic fang cast on tiger fists.
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Good catch. I'm still not sure why that line exists.So far, the only uses my group have found for the "natural weapon" clause are for magic fang -- not great -- and strong jaw.
Also good for:
Lockjaw
School transmutation; Level druid 2, ranger 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (sticky tree gum)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
You give a creature the ability to use one of its natural attacks to firmly attach itself to an opponent. Choose one of the creature's natural attacks (usually a claw or bite attack). The creature gains the grab ability with that natural attack, including the +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks to start or maintain a grapple. A creature with multiple natural attacks can strike at its grappled opponent with its other natural attacks, but cannot attack any other creature.
Also good for:
Ooh, that is good. Thanks for the suggestion!