Oh, hi there!
This archetype was based in the Maxximilius/Elghinn Lightbringer sugestions, and intended to use with the firearm rules created by Ashiel in her gunslinger class rewrite, but it works well with the oficial firearms rules.
Some alchemists lacks the interest or curiosity to warp his body through alchemical means. They forgo the mutagenic research to pursuit a more martial branch of alchemy.
Alchemical Firearm(Ext): The alchemist receive Exotic Weapon Proficience (Firearms), even if he do not meet the prerequisites for it. He also receives a customized pistol for free, whose modifications let him shoot alchemical bullets (see below). An alchemist can modify a normal firearm into an alchemical one with one day of work, but from now on the firearm wil only have half his market value. Alchemical firearms can still shoot normal ammunition.
The alchemist also discover how to craft alchemical bullets. The alchemist can craft one bullet with one minute of work (but see below) at negligible cost from his alchemist kit (if you are using the oficial firearm rules, you still have to pay for the black powder), and can have a max simultaneous active bullets equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Alchemical bullets created past this limit cause the old ones to become inactive. Alchemical bullets remains active until used, or after leave the alchemist possession. Only the alchemist who had created the alchemical bullets can use it. There are four types of alchemical bullets:
Acid Bullet: Fashioned with a corrosive coating, the acid is activated on impact. The bullet deals +1d4 alchemical acid damage, and +1d4 on the subsequent round. At 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, living targets must make a Fortitude check or become poisoned. Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC 16; Frequency 1/round for 2 round; Effect 1 Con damage; Cure 1 save; On save the target is instead sickened for 1 round. Successive critical hits increases the DC and duration, as normal per the poison rules.
Fire Bullet: Fashioned with a phosphore core, the bullet explodes on impact, creating a short but intense burst of fire. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical fire damage. At 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, the target is blinded for 1 round, and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or catches fire.
Eletrical Bullet: Fashioned with a charged natural magnetic node at its head, it discharges on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical eletrical damage. Ath 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, the target is magnetized for 1d4 rounds. Anyone striking the target with metal weapons (also works for bullets and metal headed arrows and bolts) receive +2 on its attacks (+4 if the target is wearing metal armor). The bonus are cumulative upon successives critical hits.
Ice Bullet: Fashioned with concentrated eternal ice, the shot activated on impact, quickly frozing the imediate area. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical cold damage. At 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, the target is staggered for 1 round.
The alchemist must choose at creation the type of the alchemical bullet, but at higher levels he can create a bullet with more than one property (as they take different parts of the bullet). At 8th level he can created a bullet with 2 properties, at 13th 3 properties, and at 18th 4 properties. Each property crafted in the bullet have its own cost and time. Then, a fire ice eletrical bullet takes 3 minutes to be made and counts as 3 alchemical bullets.
This ability replaces mutagen.
Feedback? Especially on Acid Shot and the DC.
Again, this is based on Maxximilius/Elghinn Lightbringer suggestions at the Ashiel gunslinger review thread, and credit must be given.
Ps: Sorry the bad english =]
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Alchemical Gunsmith
Some alchemists lacks the interest or curiosity to warp his body through alchemical means. They forgo the mutagenic research to pursuit a more martial branch of alchemy.Alchemical Firearm(Ext): The alchemist receive Exotic Weapon Proficience (Firearms), even if he do not meet the prerequisites for it. He also receives a customized pistol for free, whose modifications let him shoot alchemical bullets (see below). An alchemist can modify a normal firearm into an alchemical one with one day of work, but from now on the firearm wil only have half his market value. Alchemical firearms can still shoot normal ammunition.
The alchemist also discover how to craft alchemical bullets. The alchemist can craft one bullet with one minute of work (but see below) at negligible cost from his alchemist kit (if you are using the oficial firearm rules, you still have to pay for the black powder), and can have a max simultaneous active bullets equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Alchemical bullets created past this limit cause the old ones to become inactive. Alchemical bullets remains active until used, or after leave the alchemist possession. Only the alchemist who had created the alchemical bullets can use it. There are four types of alchemical bullets:
Acid Bullet: Fashioned with a corrosive coating, the acid is activated on impact. The bullet deals +1d4 alchemical acid damage, and +1d4 on the subsequent round. At 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, living targets must make a Fortitude check or become poisoned. Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC 16; Frequency 1/round for 2 round; Effect 1 Con damage; Cure 1 save; On save the target is instead sickened for 1 round. Successive critical hits increases the DC and duration, as normal per the poison rules.
Fire Bullet: Fashioned with a phosphore core, the bullet explodes on impact, creating a short but intense burst of fire. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical fire damage. At 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, the target is blinded for 1 round, and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or catches fire.
Eletrical Bullet: Fashioned with a charged natural magnetic node at its head, it discharges on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical eletrical damage. Ath 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, the target is magnetized for 1d4 rounds. Anyone striking the target with metal weapons (also works for bullets and metal headed arrows and bolts) receive +2 on its attacks (+4 if the target is wearing metal armor). The bonus are cumulative upon successives critical hits.
Ice Bullet: Fashioned with concentrated eternal ice, the shot activated on impact, quickly frozing the imediate area. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical cold damage. At 12th level, on a confirmed critical hit, the target is staggered for 1 round.
The alchemist must choose at creation the type of the alchemical bullet, but at higher levels he can create a bullet with more than one property (as they take different parts of the bullet). At 8th level he can created a bullet with 2 properties, at 13th 3 properties, and at 18th 4 properties. Each property crafted in the bullet have its own cost and time. Then, a fire ice eletrical bullet takes 3 minutes to be made and counts as 3 alchemical bullets.
This ability replaces mutagen.
The concept is perfect when willing to go in a more "explosive" way for an alchemist, I can see this completing pretty well a bomber build. On the balance subject, though, I find this capacity pretty weak when comparing to the mutagen :
When an alchemist brews a mutagen, he selects one physical ability score—either Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. It’s a standard action to drink a mutagen. Upon being imbibed, the mutagen causes the alchemist to grow bulkier and more bestial, granting him a +2 natural armor bonus and a +4 alchemical bonus to the selected ability score for 10 minutes per alchemist level. In addition, while the mutagen is in effect, the alchemist takes a –2 penalty to one of his mental ability scores. If the mutagen enhances his Strength, it applies a penalty to his Intelligence. If it enhances his Dexterity, it applies a penalty to his Wisdom. If it enhances his Constitution, it applies a penalty to his Charisma.
The mutagen gives +2 AC, and, on your choice, +2 Att&Dam, +2 Att &/or AC, or +2 HP/level. And we're just talking about the level 1 ability, at 12th and 16th level it becomes way better, without speaking about a discovery like Feral Mutagen. Your version gives +1d6 elemental damage, something which is really useful at low level, but faces resistances and immunities faster.
A way I think it could change, this came to me right now, is a mutagen a bit more ugly : what if your hand herself BECAME a masterwork gun which could fire a certain number of special alchemical bullets like bone parts transmutated from your own body each day without any risk of misfire ? You would get the normal AC bonus from the skin's mutation, and depending of the kind of weapon, a bonus that could compare with a classical mutagen without looking weak or too powerful. Or simply, a "magical" alchemical infusion that adds a damage dice to your attacks with a normal pistol got for free during 10 min/level by transmutating the shots. Don't forget in this case that if a classic mutagen gives bonuses, it doesn't give you a firearm for free. Feral mutagen could for example become "Double mutagun" (omg, this name is awesome, I love myself), mutating your second hand and allowing you to shot two times in a round like if you had TWF but without suffering any malus, like with natural claws. Your hands would still be usable during this time but only in the purpose of drinking an extract or a potion.In all cases, the level 12 and 16 abilities should be made discoveries in their own, like a classical greater/higher mutagen. Right now, your build as written isn't worth giving up high AC and alchemical ability bonuses for a few shots per day, even if the concept can work pretty well with a bit more work about what you imagine the Alchemical Gunsmith should be. ;)
Edit : the DC save for the poison is maybe a bit too low for a level 12 capacity, but the automatic Sickened effect on a save makes this way better in terms of balance without looking game breaking. Either way in case of critical, you'll suffer. Like this !
Thanks for the feedback.
It's not a good as the mutagen because alchemists who are willing to trade mutagen for the alchemical firearm are bombers, who do not will use mutagens constantly. Well, maybe for +Dex and +Con. Ok, what about let them craft multi-feature alchemical bullets at 5th, 10th and 15th instead, AND the alchemical bullets also deal +1d10 damage on criticals (much like elemental Burst weapons) at 12th? Remember, these are free weapon special abilities which works on Antimagic Fiels (Ext). And at higher levels, make your target blinded, staggered, sickened +2(+4) to hit, no save, with a critical? Pretty good, eh?
While the mutagun (heheh, clever) can be fine too, I'm looking more for an ability for a "Warping my flesh and feeble my mind? Yuck! No, I will let it for the guinea pigs." type of alchemist.
Also, I can go for free masterwork when modifying the firearm to an alchemical one (maybe only for the alchemist who did this?), but I don't really care for the misfire, as I made it intended to use with Ashiel rules.
Also, it works great with Focused Shot.
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I see what you want to say and what you want to do. The only thing I don't believe is that bombers do not use the mutagen constantly, when it gives them +4 AC and +2 Att in a standard action for a good duration.
In this case, you want to trade AC for alchemical damage, but the dexterity bonus to attack can be simulated with the free feat and the level 1 masterwork weapon. I would even add to this the capacity to shoot your bombs with your Alchemical Firearm as a standard action like you would do without a gun, adding 5 feet (1 square) to it's range.
Here is my (prototype) take on your Alchemical Gunsmith. I'm probably sure it's not perfect, but it follows more the logic behind the classical mutagen, and it gives a pretty damn good adaptability to any situation you could encounter, in the pure Alchemist's "I invent something useful on the road and make everything explode" style. Don't hesitate to give an opinion on it, the only thing really bugging me is the range you can get for bombs with a Distance weapon. It makes sense but it's 2 squares more... but in the other hand, you've got 4 AC less too ! :)
Alchemical Firearm(Ext): The alchemist receives Exotic Weapon Proficience (Firearms), even if he does not meet the prerequisites for it. He also receives a customized pistol for free, whose modifications let him shoot alchemical bullets (see below). An alchemist can modify a normal firearm into an alchemical one with one day of work, but from now on the firearm will only have half his market value. Alchemical firearms can still shoot normal ammunition and are always of wasterwork quality. An alchemical pistol can be used to shoot an alchemist bomb as if throwing them, but with a range equal to 25 feet, using any attack bonuses from pistol training, masterwork weapon... the alchemist could have, but no damage bonuses. (The Distance magical enhancement on an alchemical pistol increases the bomb throwing range to 30 feet.)
The alchemist also discovers how to craft alchemical bullets. The alchemist can craft one bullet with one minute of work (but see below) at negligible cost from his alchemist kit (if you are using the oficial firearm rules, you still have to pay for the black powder), and can have a max simultaneous active bullets equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Alchemical bullets created past this limit cause the old ones to become inactive. Alchemical bullets remains active until used, or after leave the alchemist possession. Only the alchemist who had created the alchemical bullets can use it. There are four types of alchemical bullets:
Acid Bullet: Fashioned with a corrosive coating, the acid is activated on impact. The bullet deals +1d4 alchemical acid damage, and +1d2 on the subsequent round.
Fire Bullet: Fashioned with a phosphore core, the bullet explodes on impact, creating a short but intense burst of fire. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical fire damage.
Eletrical Bullet: Fashioned with a charged natural magnetic node at its head, it discharges on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical eletrical damage.
Ice Bullet: Fashioned with a concentrated eternal ice jacket, the shot activates on impact, quickly frozing the imediate area. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical cold damage.
The alchemist must choose at creation the type of the alchemical bullet, but at higher levels he can create a bullet with more than one property (as they take different parts of the bullet). At 8th level he can created a bullet with 2 properties, at 13th 3 properties, and at 18th 4 properties. Each property crafted in the bullet has its own cost and time. Then, a fire ice eletrical bullet takes 3 minutes to be made and counts as 3 alchemical bullets.
This ability replaces mutagen.
New discoveries :
Utility Alchemical shot(Ex): this discovery adds a special effect to your bullets, in a fashion to interact with the battlefield.
Acid Bullet: Your highly corrosive acid shots ignore up to 10 points of resistance from objects, allowing you to easily interact with any material that could impede your progression, like a rope holding a drawbridge. This falls to 5 points when trying a destruction manoeuvre on objects worn by an enemy.
Fire Bullet: your bullets make any inflammable material catch fire when hit.
Electrical Bullet : by attaching an electrical bullet to a steel wire (5 gp/feet, 10 resistance, 10 HP), you can use it as a rope with a grappling hook at the end on any metallic surface. The bullet and the wire can support up to 50 lmbs.
Cold Bullet : by shooting on the ground (AC 10), you create a 1.5 feet sheet of ice that impedes progression. On the first round, the bullet creates a water puddle considered difficult terrain, though the enemy can still charge through this square. On the second round, the water freezes, and becomes a difficult terrain even for the purpose of charging. In the third round, the square is treated as if touched by a Grease spell during a number of rounds equal to the alchemist intelligence modifier. Of alchemical origin, this sheet of ice can't be dispelled but can be melted by high temperatures like a Fireball.
Higher alchemical shots (Ex): the Alchemical Bullets shot by the alchemist gain the burst capacity. In case of critical, the bullet explodes, dealing +1d10 elemental damage for a critical multiplier of x2, +2d10 for a critical multiplier of 3, etc. Only one alchemical element per bullet at a time can burst, this is chosen by the alchemist when the critical hit is confirmed.
The alchemist must be level 8 to choose this discovery.
Greater Alchemical Bullets (Ex): the Alchemical Bullets shot by the alchemist now disrupt the target's body on each critical hit. Only one element at a time can have a critical hit effect, this is chosen by the alchemist when the critical hit is confirmed.
Acid Bullet: On a confirmed critical hit, living targets must make a Fortitude check or become poisoned. Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC 16; Frequency 1/round for 2 round; Effect 1 Con damage; Cure 1 save; On save the target is instead sickened for 1 round. Successive critical hits increases the DC and duration, as normal per the poison rules.
Fire Bullet : On a confirmed critical hit, the target is blinded for 1 round, and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or catch fire.
Electrical Bullet : On a confirmed critical hit, the target is magnetized for 1d4 rounds. Anyone striking the target with metal weapons (also works for bullets and metal headed arrows and bolts) receives +1 on its attacks (+2 if the target is wearing metal armor). The bonuses are cumulative upon successives critical hits.
Cold Bullet : On a confirmed critical hit, the target is staggered for 1 round.
The alchemist must be level 12 and have Higher Alchemical shot to select this discovery.
Great Alchemical Bullets (Ex): The alchemist bullets can now burst and activate a critical effect from two elements each time the alchemist lands a critical hit.
The alchemist must be level 16 and already have Greater Alchemical Shot to select this discovery.
I made some balance changes too. When you get your final version, don't hesitate to put it in the Pahtfinder Database, I'm sure the concept of gun-wielding characters hasn't got enough rules for now and that a lot of people could be interested, especially when it's a variant of a class which didn't got any for now. And with the Ultimate Combat coming, this kind of gun-variant could be well-received, even if 95% of players will not vote and just happily use it in their game. ;)
Really great! I agree with making some of the features in discoveries, it makes the alchemical firearm more similar to the mutagen. Also, what do think about it:
Alchemical Firearm(Ext): The alchemist receives Exotic Weapon Proficience (Firearms), even if he does not meet the prerequisites for it. He also receives a customized pistol for free, whose modifications let him shoot alchemical bullets (see below). An alchemist can modify a normal firearm into an alchemical one with one day of work, but from now on the firearm will only have half his market value. Alchemical firearms can still shoot normal ammunition. Only modified handguns and longarms can shoot alchemical bullets, but a modified shotgun can be used to shoot an alchemist bomb as if throwing them, but with a range equal to shotgun range, using any attack bonuses from feats, masterwork weapon, weapon special abilities,... the alchemist could have, but not damage bonuses. Alchemist bombs used this way must first be loaded in the shotgun as normal ammunition (and requiring the same reload time). Alchemists can shoot bombs loaded in a shotgun as may times as he could shoot a shotgun with normal ammunition. At 14th level, bombs shooted thsi way deals any bonus damage from the shotgun gained from feats, weapon special abilities,... on a direct hit.
The alchemist also discovers how to craft alchemical bullets. The alchemist can craft one bullet with one minute of work (but see below) at negligible cost from his alchemist kit (if you are using the oficial firearm rules, you still have to pay for the black powder), and can have a max simultaneous active bullets equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Alchemical bullets created past this limit cause the old ones to become inactive. Alchemical bullets remains active until used, or after leave the alchemist possession. Only the alchemist who had created the alchemical bullets can use it. There are four types of alchemical bullets:
Acid Bullet: Fashioned with a corrosive coating, the acid is activated on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical acid damage.
Fire Bullet: Fashioned with a phosphore core, the bullet explodes on impact, creating a short but intense burst of fire. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical fire damage.
Eletrical Bullet: Fashioned with a charged natural magnetic node at its head, it discharges on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical eletrical damage.
Ice Bullet: Fashioned with a concentrated eternal ice jacket, the shot activates on impact, quickly frozing the imediate area. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical cold damage.
The alchemist must choose at creation the type of the alchemical bullet, but at higher levels he can create a bullet with more than one property (as they take different parts of the bullet). At 8th level he can created a bullet with 2 properties, at 13th 3 properties, and at 18th 4 properties. Each property crafted in the bullet has its own cost and time. Then, a fire ice eletrical bullet takes 3 minutes to be made and counts as 3 alchemical bullets.
This ability replaces mutagen and persistent mutagen, and the alchemist cannot take any discovery that relies on mutagen.
New Discoveries
Utility Alchemical shot(Ex): Really liked it. Nice way to bring it to the archetype, also is on par with Feral Mutagen. Only a change to Cold:
Cold Bullet: by shooting on the ground (AC 10), you create a 5 feet sheet of ice. The square is treated as if touched by a Grease spell during a number of rounds equal to the alchemist intelligence modifier. Of alchemical origin, this sheet of ice can't be dispelled but can be melted by high temperatures like a Fireball. (I really don't get the water out of the bullet, then it freezes. Just ice is easier to deal with, and more logical IMHO)
Higher alchemical shots (Ex): Fine.
Greater Alchemical Bullets (Ex): Fine too. I just feel that eletrical bullet should maintain the +2/+4 to be on par with the others. Do not think it's over the board (unless you have like 5 alchemist shooting the fighter on fullplate).
Great Alchemical Bullets (Ex): Fine too.
I created a similar concept, the Alchemy Gunner
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Only modified handguns and longarms can shoot alchemical bullets, but a modified shotgun can be used to shoot an alchemist bomb as if throwing them, but with a range equal to shotgun range, using any attack bonuses from feats, masterwork weapon, weapon special abilities,... the alchemist could have, but not damage bonuses. Alchemist bombs used this way must first be loaded in the shotgun as normal ammunition (and requiring the same reload time). Alchemists can shoot bombs loaded in a shotgun as may times as he could shoot a shotgun with normal ammunition. At 14th level, bombs shooted thsi way deals any bonus damage from the shotgun gained from feats, weapon special abilities,... on a direct hit.
Several problems with this :
- The scattergun got a better range than normal bombs. Nothing stops the alchemist from gaining a firearm that will shoot alchemical bullets, then buying a scattergun only to shoot bombs with a way better range and a lot of bonuses at higher level that are better than what the mutagen would have ever given. I say if you want that only shotguns can do this, let them still use the alchemical bullets too, and/but the scattergun must be an exception to the rule, too powerful to do this - or have a maximum range of 25 feet with bombs.- If you balance the shotguns to use bombs so much efficiently, you're basically sacrifying the whole originality of the variant by forbidding to use alchemical bullets with them.
I suggest you allow all weapons to shoot bomb and use alchemical shots, but only shotguns to do it from a lower range and inflict more damage by doing so if you want to keep this distinction. Or even better, to allow shotguns to shoot each bomb as a cone effect inflicting full damage from the bomb like if everyone got touch-attacked (save for half-damage), using the weapons range for the cone and damage bonuses from feats, weapon, etc. Risky, but powerful... the shotgun in all it's magnificence !
Acid Bullet: Fashioned with a corrosive coating, the acid is activated on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical acid damage.
1d4 + 1d2 is better than straight 1d6 even if 1 or 2 points could change the issue of a battle at low level, followed the logic from global acid effects that deal damages on the previous round, and allowed for a better diversity in bullet effects, but it's as you wish. ;)
by shooting on the ground (AC 10), you create a 5 feet sheet of ice. The square is treated as if touched by a Grease spell during a number of rounds equal to the alchemist intelligence modifier. Of alchemical origin, this sheet of ice can't be dispelled but can be melted by high temperatures like a Fireball. (I really don't get the water out of the bullet, then it freezes. Just ice is easier to deal with, and more logical IMHO)
It was discuted a lot in the gunslinger's topic, and what was deduced is that allowing someone to create essentially multiple grease spells in one round, even if the squares are only 1,5 feet, is too powerful. Just shoot two times in front of you, and the big fighter has a chance to run to it's demise, making you almost invincible and unaccessible at lower levels... eventually, seeing how the alchemist's BAB is lower and so he got less shots with a lower chance to hit, do it so that the first round impedes movement without forbidding charge, and the second activates the freezing. You're winning one round from my previous writing and it's less complicated to follow.
I created a similar concept, the Alchemy Gunner
I like your version's concept too, though I think it's unfortunate that you exchange bombs with radius effect for bullets, even if you increase your range to the one from your firearm. It's more... academic, which isn't bad in itself. Even if your versions could be perfectly complementaries, I have a hard time figuring how to stack Alchemical Bullets (mutagen) with Alchemical Bullets (bombs), even if the two of them seem pretty much balanced... it would have been fun. Did you used the official Pathfinder rules for firearms ? It's probably why it gets harder to stack the two of them without getting a level 1 nuke-bullet per shot. :D
By the way freduncio, you should remove Throw Anything from your alchemist too, whatever you decide for the guns/bombs mechanism. Replace it with proficiency with firearm.I say, freduncio should post here his full finalized version, then you two should put these on the Pathfinder Database website as Alchemist variants, it's the kind of work I'm searching for when looking for character concepts, but on forums it's harder to find and I admit it gives too much of a "homebrew" image when few people commentated on it. If you do so, don't forget to include Ashiel's firearms rules freduncio, same for you and official Pathfinder rules for firearms, Kierato.
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I forgot : +2/+4 is IMHO way too much. All of the time, you are essentially gonna give all allies a +4 to attack and dommages against the target already suffering from a critical hit. Just imagine landing two critical hits (easily doable with Ashiel's guns), you essentially gave +8 to attack and damage... to everyone. I would say that you always get +1 because your own bullet attracts weapons, but for a duraction equal to your intelligence modifier ; and each critical hit adds +1 and resets the duration (thus if an alchemist lands a critical hit and gives +1 during 5 rounds, if he lands another critical on the 4th round, it becomes a +2 bonus against the target for 5 rounds, etc).
You can always think about adding this :
Greater Alchemical Shot (Ex): your mastery of alchemy makes your bullets even more efficient when landing a critical hit. The following changes apply to your bullets :
Acid Bullet: The base poison DC increases by 2, becoming 18.
Fire Bullet : The DC reflex for not catching fire becomes 18, and the burning damage suffered each round from this ability becomes 2d6.
Electrical Bullet : On a confirmed critical hit, the base bonus to attack and damage increases to +2. Each additional critical hit still increases the bonus by +1 and resets the duration like normal.
Cold Bullet : On a confirmed critical hit, the target is staggered for 1 round and can only move to half it's speed for 1d4 rounds.
The alchemist must be level 16 and have Greater Alchemical Bullets to select this discovery.
- The scattergun got a better range than normal bombs. Nothing stops the alchemist from gaining a firearm that will shoot alchemical bullets, then buying a scattergun only to shoot bombs with a way better range and a lot of bonuses at higher level that are better than what the mutagen would have ever given. I say if you want that only shotguns can do this, let them still use the alchemical bullets too, and/but the scattergun must be an exception to the rule, too powerful to do this - or have a maximum range of 25 feet with bombs.
- If you balance the shotguns to use bombs so much efficiently, you're basically sacrifying the whole originality of the variant by forbidding to use alchemical bullets with them.
I suggest you allow all weapons to shoot bomb and use alchemical shots, but only shotguns to do it from a lower range and inflict more damage by doing so if you want to keep this distinction. Or even better, to allow shotguns to shoot each bomb as a cone effect inflicting full damage from the bomb like if everyone got touch-attacked (save for half-damage), using the weapons range for the cone and damage bonuses from feats, weapon, etc. Risky, but powerful... the shotgun in all it's magnificence !
While the ranger is really better (+50%), remember that it is not a weapon affordable at 1st level, and the alchemist must load the bomb first. Separating the alchemical bullet from shotguns come into the balance: to take full advantage of this archetype the alchemist must have at least two firearms, a handgun/longarm and a shotgun. He should divide his wealth between them. The extra range (and only from the scattergun) is not really an issue, as a regular alchemist can throw a bomb at someone at 30ft and only will take -2 to the (touch) attack. I could add that Distance ability do not work for bombs. The damage bonus at 14th will come mainly from weapon enhancements, as Deadly Aim do not work with touch attacks, and the alchemist cannot take Weapon Specialization (well, maybe multiclassing, but it will delay the gain to 18th level). So, it's not really a lots of bonuses
The cone effect idead is great! But I envision it as a discovery.Alchemist Cannon(Ex): As a standard action that do not provokes attacks of oportunity you can shoot a bomb through a shotgun. Treat it as a cone effect with range equal to half the weapon's range. Those caught in the area suffers damage equal to the bombs damage (Reflex DC 10+half your alchemist level+Int modifier to half). Discoveries that modifies the bomb damage also change this attack, but not especial effects that relies on a direct hit. The alchemist must be at least 8th level before selecting this discovery.
1d4 + 1d2 is better than straight 1d6 even if 1 or 2 points could change the issue of a battle at low level, followed the logic from global acid effects that deal damages on the previous round, and allowed for a better diversity in bullet effects, but it's as you wish. ;)
I put it to +1d6 to equalize with other shots, and because it's basically an elemental enhancement. Acid bullet it's already the best shot, I think there's no need to enhance the damage.
It was discuted a lot in the gunslinger's topic, and what was deduced is that allowing someone to create essentially multiple grease spells in one round, even if the squares are only 1,5 feet, is too powerful. Just shoot two times in front of you, and the big fighter has a chance to run to it's demise, making you almost invincible and unaccessible at lower levels... eventually, seeing how the alchemist's BAB is lower and so he got less shots with a lower chance to hit, do it so that the first round impedes movement without forbidding charge, and the second activates the freezing. You're winning one round from my previous writing and it's less complicated to follow.
Fair enough.
By the way freduncio, you should remove Throw Anything from your alchemist too, whatever you decide for the guns/bombs mechanism. Replace it with proficiency with firearm.
Indeed. I was thinking about the loss of +Int.Mod on damage with other alchemical itens, but the firearms proficience probably will make up for it...
I forgot : +2/+4 is IMHO way too much. All of the time, you are essentially gonna give all allies a +4 to attack and dommages against the target already suffering from a critical hit. Just imagine landing two critical hits (easily doable with Ashiel's guns), you essentially gave +8 to attack and damage... to everyone. I would say that you always get +1 because your own bullet attracts weapons, but for a duraction equal to your intelligence modifier ; and each critical hit adds +1 and resets the duration (thus if an alchemist lands a critical hit and gives +1 during 5 rounds, if he lands another critical on the 4th round, it becomes a +2 bonus against the target for 5 rounds, etc).
The bonus is only to attack. And the chances to get two critical aren't easy (9% to get it with two attacks, even with imp. critical), as the alchemist cannot get sniper shot. And even a gunslinger/alchemist could only get it by 18th. So, I can go with always +2 (to hit only) and Int modifier rounds. What do you think? And the discovery is ok.
Surely I will post the final version on Pathfinde DB. And again, thanks for the feedback
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So, I can go with always +2 (to hit only) and Int modifier rounds.
Fair enough, I like it. Though if you keep Greater Alchemical Shot, you should change the Electricity Shot description, maybe to something like "On a confirmed critical hit, the target gets a -1 to hit due to the buzzing incomfort in it's organism during the duration of the critical effect, this goes to -2 if the target wields metal weapons because of the imbalance provoked by the magnetism. This effect doesn't stack with itself". The idea of someone fighting to land a hit with it's weapon trying to stick on himself is funny and fluffwise well adapted to an electricity alchemist.
I like that you made the shotgun cone a standard action too. Flamethrower ftw ! But think about specific discoveries, and maybe add to the description than Fast Bombs don't allow to do this several times on a round. ;)
Guess all you need to do now is a bit or rewording, and adding all new discoveries together. It would make a good enemy in the campaign I play in, I'll show it to my GM someday ! :)
Ok, here we go
Some alchemists lacks the interest or curiosity to warp his body through alchemical means. They forgo the mutagenic research to dabble into a more martial branch of alchemy.
Firearm Training: The alchemical gunsmith receive Exotic Weapon Proficience (firearms), even if he do not meet the prerequisites. This ability replaces Throw Anything.
Alchemical Firearm(Ex): The alchemical gunsmith receives a alchemical pistol for free. It's a customized pistol whose modifications let him shoot alchemical bullets (see below). The alchemical gunsmith can modify any handgun or longarm into a alchemical firearm with one day of work, but from now on the weapon will have only half his market value. Alchemical firearms can still shoot normal ammunition.
Shotguns cannot be modified into a alchemical firearm, but from now on the alchemical gunsmith can use bombs as ammunition for it. When shooting a bomb this way, the alchemical gunsmith uses the weapon range increment, and the damage is the same of the alchemist bomb, as well as any effect associed with that bomb. The Distance weapon special ability do not have effect in a bomb shooted this way. Any attack bonus (but not damage bonuses) the shotgun receives are used in this attack, as well as any bonuses the bomb receives, except if they come from the same source (Weapon Focus (bomb) and Weapon Focus (shotgun) do not stack, for example). Bombs used this way must first be loaded into the shotgun. Alchemical gunsmiths can shoot bombs loaded in a shotgun as many times as he could shoot a shotgun with normal ammunition. Bombs shooted this way still are considered a Supernatural Ability. At 14th level, bombs shooted this way deals any damage bonuses the shotgun receives (weapon enhancements, feats...) on a direct hit.
The alchemist also discovers how to craft alchemical bullets. The alchemist can craft one bullet with one minute of work (but see below) at negligible cost from his alchemist kit, and can have a max simultaneous active bullets equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Alchemical bullets created past this limit cause the old ones to become inactive. Alchemical bullets remains active until used, or after leave the alchemist possession. Only the alchemist who had created the alchemical bullets can use it. There are four types of alchemical bullets:
Acid Bullet: Fashioned with a corrosive coating, the acid is activated on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical acid damage.
Fire Bullet: Fashioned with a phosphore core, the bullet explodes on impact, creating a short but intense burst of fire. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical fire damage.
Eletrical Bullet: Fashioned with a charged natural magnetic node at its head, it discharges on impact. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical eletrical damage.
Ice Bullet: Fashioned with a concentrated eternal ice jacket, the shot activates on impact, quickly frozing the imediate area. The bullet deals +1d6 alchemical cold damage.
The alchemist must choose at creation the type of the alchemical bullet, but at higher levels he can create a bullet with more than one property (as they take different parts of the bullet). At 8th level he can created a bullet with 2 properties, at 13th 3 properties, and at 18th 4 properties. Each property crafted in the bullet has its own cost and time. Then, a fire ice eletrical bullet takes 3 minutes to be made and counts as 3 alchemical bullets.
This ability replaces Mutagen and Persistent Mutagen.
New Discoveries:
Utility Alchemical Shot(Ex): this discovery adds a special effect to your bullets, in a fashion to interact with the battlefield.
Acid Bullet: Your highly corrosive acid shots ignore up to 1 points of hardness per level (max 10) from objects, allowing you to easily interact with any material that could impede your progression, like a rope holding a drawbridge. This falls to half when trying a destroy metal objects.
Fire Bullet: Your bullets make any inflammable material catch fire when hit.
Electrical Bullet: By attaching a steel wire to an eletrical bullet (1 gp/feet, 10 hardness, 10 HP), you can use it as a rope with a grappling hook at the end on any metallic surface. On GM fiat, surfaces soft enough to let the bullet penetrate can be used as anchor to this shot. The bullet and the wire can support up to 200 lbs.
Cold Bullet: By shooting on the ground (AC 10), you create a 5 feet sheet of ice that impedes progression. On the first round the square is considered difficult terrain, except for charge. On the second round the square is treated as if touched by a Grease spell during a number of rounds equal to the alchemical gunsmith Intelligence modifier. Of alchemical origin, this sheet of ice can't be dispelled but can be melted by high temperatures, like those created by Fireball.
Alchemist Cannon(Su): As a standard action that do not provokes attacks of oportunity you can shoot a bomb through a shotgun. Treat it as a cone effect with range equal to half the weapon's range. Those caught in the area suffers damage equal to the bombs damage (Reflex DC 10 + 1/2 the alchemical gunsmith level + Int modifier to half damage). If you have any of the following discoveries you can add one to change the damage type according: Acid Bomb, Concussive Bomb, Force Bomb and Frost Bomb. Special effects relying in a direct hit are not imparted in the damage.
The alchemical gunsmith must be at least 8th level before selecting this discovery.
Critical Bullets(Ex):The Alchemical Bullets shot by the alchemical gunsmith gain the burst capacity. In case of critical, the bullet explodes, dealing +1d10 elemental damage for a critical multiplier of x2, +2d10 for a critical multiplier of 3, etc. Only one alchemical element per bullet at a time can burst, this is chosen by the alchemist when the critical hit is confirmed.
The alchemical gunsmith must be at least 12th level before selecting this discovery.
Improved Alchemical Bullets(Ex): The Alchemical Bullets shot by the alchemist now disrupt the target's body on each critical hit. Only one element at a time can have a critical hit effect, this is chosen by the alchemist when the critical hit is confirmed.
Acid Bullet: On a confirmed critical hit, living targets must make a Fortitude check or become poisoned. Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC 16; Frequency 1/round for 2 round; Effect 1 Con damage; Cure 1 save; On save the target is instead sickened for 1 round. Successive critical hits increases the DC and duration, as normal per the poison rules.
Fire Bullet: On a confirmed critical hit, the target is blinded for 1 round, and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or catch fire.
Electrical Bullet: On a confirmed critical hit, the target is magnetized for a number of rounds equal to your Int modifier. Anyone striking the target with metal weapons (also works for bullets and metal headed arrows and bolts) receives +2 on its attacks. Sucessive critical hits stacks (max +10) and increases duration by half your Int modifier.
Cold Bullet: On a confirmed critical hit, the target is staggered for 1 round.
The alchemical gunsmith must be 12th level before selecting this discovery.
Greater Alchemical Bullets(Ex): The alchemical bullets can now burst and/or activate a critical effect from two elements each time the alchemical gunsmith lands a critical hit. Also, any save DC is increased by 2.
The alchemical gunsmith must be at least 16th level and must possess the critical bullets or improved alchemical bullets discovery before selecting this discovery.
Grand Discovery: Add the following discovery do the list.
True Alchemical Bullets(Ex): The alchemical bullets can now burst and/or activate critical effects from all elements crafted in the bullet. And any save DC is increased by another 2.
The alchemical gunsmith must possess the greater alchemical bullets discovery before selecting this discovery.
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True Alchemical Bullets(Ex): The alchemical bullets can now burst and/or activate critical effects from all elements crafted in the bullet. And any save DC is increased by another 2.
The alchemical gunsmith must possess the greater alchemical bullets discovery before selecting this discovery.
And so the Earth exploded when the alchemist landed a critical, but hey, at least he doesn't spend an eternal youth of boredom. 8D
Really, I like this, it seems balanced and interesting to me. I think you got the variant right with this last writing. But still, it needs to be played so you can see how it will turn, and maybe people will send opinions or advices on the variant. ;)