Hey all you expert min/maxers out there, here's anotehr chance to show your mastery! ; )
Jorzan here is a 6th level PC, Rogue5/ Shadowdancer 1 and I'm leveling him up to 7th level now. So took him to Shadowdancer 2 and have an extra feat to play with.
This is what I was thinking of doing:
Pick up a Scorpion Whip and the Exotic Weapon Feat to go with it.
What I'm hoping this will do, but am not sure and would like to get clear on though, is this: if he is using the whip, he will then have a 15' reach and be able to make FOUR AOO's per round to ANY foe with 15' of him?? (Due to combat Relfexes and 18 DEX )
Cause this almost sounds to good to be true!
However are SO many new Feats that I am unfamiliar with that if anyone knows of a better suggestion for a Rogue/Shadowdancer I'm all ears.
PS, as an addendum, Also found an interesting thread HERE in which there's a link to James Jacobs confirming that with weapon finesse the weapon wielder can add their Dex bonus to a CMB. Whoot! : )
Am also thinking of making a dip into Ranger at some point. That a good idea?
Dunno if it is the case still, but the whip used to resolve like a ranged weapon, meaning no flanking, no AoO, draw AoO if threatened. Not a good weapon for a rogue, sadly.
Post rest of the feats you have?
Feats so far: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
(basically what was necessary for Shadowdancer
And Rogue Talents: Resiliency, Fast Stealth
So, you are saying that the Whip doesn't even grant AoO's?
The whip doesn't grant AoOs, sadly. It is not BAD however:
The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere
within your reach (including adjacent foes).Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a whip sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon.
It allows for some interesting flanking, if you have a second weapon in your off hand to take care of people entering melee.
However, since you have Combat Reflexes, I would suggest also picking up a longspear, which doesn't cost you a feat.
But you now possess the requirements for Spring Attack, which can be used very efficiently by shadowdancers.
I was very much considering Spring Attack, and I may just end up going with that, as you say. And then maybe picking up Lunge later on.
I had just been looking at some way to take advantage of the Combat reflexes thing. And also of getting my guy to be of some better damage value in a fight. Longspear could work, as you point out. But it's kind of an unwieldy weapon for a sneaky character to carry about it seems to me. And also, just doesn't really seem to suit my guy thematically.
But thanks very much for your input! And unless something better turns up, looks like Spring Attack it will be.
Although, hmm! Just realized the longspear can fit in a Handy Haversack! ; )
the best way to take advantage of high dex and combat reflexes is a monk with a reach weapon, he can reach out for extra AoOs , OR kick them for up close.
also AoO is triggered when you leave a threatened square, someone moving away from a monk with a glaive would trigger two, one from the kick and one from the glaive.
Jorzan here is a 6th level PC, Rogue5/ Shadowdancer 1 and I'm leveling him up to 7th level now. So took him to Shadowdancer 2 and have an extra feat to play with.
The rogue/shadowdancer build that I like uses the following:
Flying talon for a weapon (use can use a rogue talent to pick this up). If you are human one more rogue level can give you a talent with your favored class benefits (assuming that's where you've put them) likewise will shadowdancer3.
Master Trapsmith archetype (loses uncanny dodge, but gets it back via shadowdancer3).
Skill focus: stealth & hellcat stealth (so you can still hide in plain sight when they throw out light to 'reveal you').
Combat Patrol
And the rogue talent on sneak attacks that removes their ability to take AOOs for 1 full round.
Basically the build is focused on 12 levels to get to rogue9/shadowdancer3.
-James
Wow James, thanks a lot! This is good stuff.
I really like Hellcat Stealth and Combat Patrol. And with Combat Reflexes, Combat Patrol Hellcat Stealth and Fast Stealth, it could really rock.
The Flying Talon is interesting, and as a light weapon you can use Weapon Finesse with it. Damage is low but 1d4 is not really that different than 1d6. Any idea what the Reach is on the Talon?