Page 586 under poison states that "multiple doses of the same poison stack. Contact and injury poison cannot inflict more than one dose at a time."
It goes on to list that a three spiders bite the character in the same round, which increases the DC by 4.
This leads me to believe that three poisoned arrows fired with Drow Poison, a DC 13, would increase the DC of the fortitude save by 4...making the save a DC 17 or fall unconscious for a minute.
If that is correct, my halfling poisoner is disgusting. Two attacks normally, rapid shot, and haste gives him four thrown darts. If he hits with all four he delivers 8 doses of drow poison since he has deadly cocktail. That means that the fortitude save is increased by 14, making the save a DC 27.
Also, I may have missed it, but when does one apply the secondary effect of the poison?
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The DC goes up only after you've been affected.
Jason explains it here.
first arrow hits, DC 13 or be affected
Second arrow hits, DC 13 or be affected
Then when the characters turn comes up they make a save equal to the DC of the poison +2 for each dose after the first they were affected by (where they failed their initial save).
The save to be affected by the poison never changes regardless of how many doses they have been affected by, only the save to resist the ongoing affects.
The DC goes up only after you've been affected.
Jason explains it here.
Lame lame lame...but thank god, lol. The way I was understanding it you could easily crank up the DC beyond what could be possible to make.
So, in my first example, the target has to fail four consecutive DC 13 fortitude saves. Then on the next round the save DC is increased by 14 to 27. Correct?
I am still unclear on when the secondary effect kicks in...after the poison runs it's course?
If that is correct, my halfling poisoner is disgusting. Two attacks normally, rapid shot, and haste gives him four thrown darts. If he hits with all four he delivers 8 doses of drow poison since he has deadly cocktail. That means that the fortitude save is increased by 14, making the save a DC 27.
With 4 darts, how are you getting 8 doses of poison applied?
If that is correct, my halfling poisoner is disgusting. Two attacks normally, rapid shot, and haste gives him four thrown darts. If he hits with all four he delivers 8 doses of drow poison since he has deadly cocktail. That means that the fortitude save is increased by 14, making the save a DC 27.With 4 darts, how are you getting 8 doses of poison applied?
Deadly cocktail advanced rogue talent allows for a weapon to be coated in two doses of injury poison.
The DC goes up only after you've been affected.
Jason explains it here.
Lame lame lame...but thank god, lol. The way I was understanding it you could easily crank up the DC beyond what could be possible to make.
So, in my first example, the target has to fail four consecutive DC 13 fortitude saves. Then on the next round the save DC is increased by 14 to 27. Correct?
I think this is reasonable, as poison is very expensive and there is no guarantee you hit with all four attacks. Your character has also invested a lot in poison use.
I run instant poison as affecting a character on his initiative roll, this allows the DC to stack up pretty high, but also allows character with a higher initiative score to step in and help with heal checks, antitoxin, delay poison spells etc.
I have been using this system in Serpent skull (an AP which features a good amount of poison), and so far it has worked out great. My pc's, even those with ridiculous fort saves, have a reason to fear poison and anti-poison feats, spells and abilities are much more useful.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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If that is correct, my halfling poisoner is disgusting. Two attacks normally, rapid shot, and haste gives him four thrown darts. If he hits with all four he delivers 8 doses of drow poison since he has deadly cocktail. That means that the fortitude save is increased by 14, making the save a DC 27.With 4 darts, how are you getting 8 doses of poison applied?Deadly cocktail advanced rogue talent allows for a weapon to be coated in two doses of injury poison.
Yes, but you just quoted this in your original post:
Contact and injury poison cannot inflict more than one dose at a time.
So yes, Deadly Cocktail allows you to apply two doses of poison to a weapon, but they can't inflict more than one dose at a time. For a melee weapon, that's fine. It means that you apply one dose with each of the next two hits. With ranged weapons, though, the ammunition isn't striking multiple times. You'd need to apply two DIFFERENT poisons to get the benefits of that talent (forcing a save against each of the two poisons separately).
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So yes, Deadly Cocktail allows you to apply two doses of poison to a weapon, but they can't inflict more than one dose at a time. For a melee weapon, that's fine. It means that you apply one dose with each of the next two hits. With ranged weapons, though, the ammunition isn't striking multiple times. You'd need to apply two DIFFERENT poisons to get the benefits of that talent (forcing a save against each of the two poisons separately).
Deadly Cocktail (Ex) : A rogue with this talent can apply
two doses of poison to a weapon at once. These can be
separate poisons, in which case they both affect the target
individually, or two doses of the same toxin, in which
case the poisons’ frequency is extended by 50% and the
save DC increases by +2. This talent is an exception to the
rule that injury poisons can only be delivered one dose
at a time.
So by my understanding it reads that it would make the poison as if it were:
Drow poison injury DC 15 — 1/min. for 4 min. unconscious 1 min./2d4 hours 1 save 150 gp|
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I didn't catch the first couple posts were using Deadly Cocktail. Seems pretty clear that if you are injecting 2 doses at a time the DC increases by 4 when you fail the initial save.
What is a little less clear is whether the initial save to throw off poisons concentrated with Deadly Cocktail and Concentrate Poison is higher.
I think it does, so the concentrated drow poison's initial save DC would go from 13 to 15.
That's quite a bit murkier though.
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So by my understanding it reads that it would make the poison as if it were:
Drow poison injury DC 15 — 1/min. for 4 min. unconscious 1 min./2d4 hours 1 save 150 gp
The problem with this is you have turned it into one dose of a more powerful poison instead of two doses of a less powerful one.
It's either:
Four doses of DC 15 poison; DC 21 to resist after the initial save. (15 + 2 + 2 + 2)
Or
Eight doses of DC 13 poison; DC 27 to resist (13 + 4 + 4 + 4)
I like the Oriental Adventures rules on brewing up the DC on poisons. Especially because the DC for poisons that don't kill a player tend to be low. My rogue wanted to buy poison and use it but not kill anyone. She wanted to be able to knock out guards from a distance with a blowgun. DC 13 drow toxin was perfect because it's only negative effect was unconsciousness. At any levels beyond 4 or 5 that DC is a joke.
Rules as written, nothing special happens if you score a critical hit with an attack that also can poison the target (other than the attack itself doing additional damage based upon its critical multiplier).