Critical Hits, Sneak attacks and Undead...oh my!


Rules Questions


We had this debate in our game tonight and we looked on the forums but weren't able to get an official answer, so please don't flame me. If you can hit a zombie with a sneak attack, can you crit a zombie with a normal attack?
Furthermore can you actually use sneak attack on undead or monsters without discernible anatomies? I read you could during alpha testing but not sure about the final rules? I already checked the forums as I said and couldn't find anything concrete or newer than 2009. Thanks all!

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

READ PRD AT THIS LINK

Under the monster area, you can check out Creature Types to check the trait of the particular monster to see if it can be affected by sneak attacks and criticals.

Undead are not listed as being immune to criticals and sneak attacks. Oozes are immune though. If the creature lists the trait of a creature type, check the traits.


To answer your questions (to the best of my knowledge):
If you can sneak attack it, usually you can crit it. Any immunity to such effects is listed under defensive traits. Zombies are vulnerable to both.
Things without discernable anatomies are almost always (if not always) immune to percision damage, such as sneak attacks. Again, refer to the "Defensive Abilities" section of the stat block in the beastiary.


Yes you can. Making undead vulnerable to sneak attacks and critical hits is a change from 3.5 to pathfinder.


I have a related question. The rules state that a creature composed of a homogenous substance is immune. The construct type is not auto-immune. Would I be allowed, rules-wise, to declare that a boulder that has been animated via spell be immune to crits/SA? How about a rug? Or a bench? thoughts, please.


TheWhiteknife wrote:
I have a related question. The rules state that a creature composed of a homogenous substance is immune. The construct type is not auto-immune. Would I be allowed, rules-wise, to declare that a boulder that has been animated via spell be immune to crits/SA? How about a rug? Or a bench? thoughts, please.

The object in question would then be animated objected. They are given the construct trait which does not protect against sneak attack or crits.

Where is the homogenous rule at? I could not find it.


I might have made it up. Im currently away from books at the moment, but I could swear it said that. Gimme a day to fact-check.


I may have completely made that up wraith. A search of the pfsrd turned up nothing. This may be what I was thinking.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/whatCreaturesAreSubjectToCriticalHitsAndOrPrecisionDamage&page =1&source=search#0

My bad.

Edit-so would that be a decent houserule?
Edit 2- fixed link i think.


nevermind. Kind of a weird place for it, but apparently all animated objects are auto immune to critical hits.

click link for smashing an object and scroll down to immunities. second sentence is the relevant one.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalRules.html#smashing-an-object

Edit- fixed link


TheWhiteknife wrote:

I may have completely made that up wraith. A search of the pfsrd turned up nothing. This may be what I was thinking.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/whatCreaturesAreSubjectToCriticalHitsAndOrPrecisionDamage&page =1&source=search#0

My bad.

Edit-so would that be a decent houserule?

Your link is broken. :)

Group neutral idea: I don't like it as a houserule because certain constructs and other creatures would get an advantage that others don't just because the DM said so, and it is possible for a creature to be on the borderline somehow which may lead to debates in the game. If a construct or any other creature is immune to sneak attack or crits I would rather it be for a very specific reason than because it does not have a definite design laid out for it. As an example I don't think golems are limited to humanoid shape so I could just make one into a square shape if I was a DM in your group. If there was a rogue in the group he would not be happy.

I would not quit a game or complain if a DM had such a rule though. I just don't prefer it.


yeah, check the second one. Its not anything I had planned. It was just one of those things that I was wondering.


TheWhiteknife wrote:
yeah, check the second one. Its not anything I had planned. It was just one of those things that I was wondering.

I hate it when rules are in "out of the way" places. That should be in the animated creature section. I thought that rule existed, but I looked for it, obviously in the wrong place, a few months ago but I never found it.


I agree. Would it be a decent houserule to allow some animated objects to be critted? For instance, an animated statue?

Edit- because thats what Im leaning towards.


TheWhiteknife wrote:

I agree. Would it be a decent houserule to allow some animated objects to be critted? For instance, an animated statue?

Edit- because thats what Im leaning towards.

Since it would have visible weak points that would make sense or you could just reskin it by taking the stats and making up a new name for it so it appears as a new monster.

PS:I would only reskin it if this is a one-time thing. If all animated objects with definite shapes can now be critted then I would just let the group know about the new rule.


This makes the construct rules even sillier, I already houseruled hardness on golems instead of DR I think I'll just go ahead and make most golems immune to crits and sneaks as well.


Remco Sommeling wrote:
This makes the construct rules even sillier, I already houseruled hardness on golems instead of DR I think I'll just go ahead and make most golems immune to crits and sneaks as well.

Why? Machines have weak spots. I can see doing it for an animated object of certain size, but for golems?


stringburka wrote:
Remco Sommeling wrote:
This makes the construct rules even sillier, I already houseruled hardness on golems instead of DR I think I'll just go ahead and make most golems immune to crits and sneaks as well.
Why? Machines have weak spots. I can see doing it for an animated object of certain size, but for golems?

A golem is not by definition a machine is it, a stone golem seems to be an animated stone statue for instance. I am not that fond of the golems are machines theory.. it might only work for some golems.

Objects probably have weak spots as well, what is the difference between a stone golem and an animated stone statue ?

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