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How does one go about creating an appropriate level version of an existing character for a mid-to-high level PFS legal module such as Cult of the Ebon Destroyers?
Using CotED as an example:
I assume that I could use an existing level 10 character and go back to what they were like at level 8. How does this work if you don't have anything higher than level 6? How do you handle wealth and item access?
Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Manitoba
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How does one go about creating an appropriate level version of an existing character for a mid-to-high level PFS legal module such as Cult of the Ebon Destroyers?
Using CotED as an example:
I assume that I could use an existing level 10 character and go back to what they were like at level 8. How does this work if you don't have anything higher than level 6? How do you handle wealth and item access?
You can't... there's no system to "level up" outside of playing enough games. However, you can usually play if you're lower level anyway... especially if the rest of the group is all appropriate level and you don't mind hiding.
You can also play the level 4 or 7 pre-gens...
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From the Pathfinder Society Rules for playing Cult of the Ebon Destroyers:
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing
Pathfinder Society character for use in the module.
So, we need some sort of "rules" for how to perform a level-up of a lower level character we want to play during CotED.
And, on a side note, since there is no current 7th level pregen for Ranger, and the example says Hyrum "makes" Joktan the Ranger, are there rules for creating a new PC of appropriate level not based off of a Society character? Do you use the standard Pathfinder Core rules information for creating high-level characters?
Should Hyrum receive two chronicles, one at 1PA/XP for Karnam, and another at 2XP/3PA for Joktan?
Interesting, though, CotED, unlike Godsmouth Heresy, follows the normal PFS replay rules, one credit for playing, one for GMing.
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I hope we do not go down this path. We shouldn't have auto leveling for certain mods. We don't do this for senarios that are out of tier, so why force this issue on store bought mods. If we start having rules for being able to level adjust per the tier we want, then (I believe) we are going down a slippery slope that other Living games have fallen into.
Having access to these modules should be a reward for achieving those levels. If you want to play the game without going working your way up the ladder, play it in a home game with whom ever you want.
If any changes should be made, it should be to the module itself (via special PFS notes) and make an multi-tier range to accomidate a larger number of PCs.
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From the Pathfinder Society Rules for playing Cult of the Ebon Destroyers:
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing
Pathfinder Society character for use in the module.So, we need some sort of "rules" for how to perform a level-up of a lower level character we want to play during CotED.
Interesting, though, CotED, unlike Godsmouth Heresy, follows the normal PFS replay rules, one credit for playing, one for GMing.
Definitely confusing with the whole 8th level character thing...
But Callarek, I don't see any difference in replay rules -- in GH and CotED, you can get credit twice, one for playing, one for running...unless I completely misread it?
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I hope we do not go down this path. We shouldn't have auto leveling for certain mods. We don't do this for senarios that are out of tier, so why force this issue on store bought mods. If we start having rules for being able to level adjust per the tier we want, then (I believe) we are going down a slippery slope that other Living games have fallen into.
Having access to these modules should be a reward for achieving those levels. If you want to play the game without going working your way up the ladder, play it in a home game with whom ever you want.
If any changes should be made, it should be to the module itself (via special PFS notes) and make an multi-tier range to accomidate a larger number of PCs.
It is not a "Auto" level, It is only an adjustment to the PCs level for the Module only. You don't keep the levels for regular PFS play.
From the Pathfinder Society Rules for playing Cult of the Ebon Destroyers:
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing
Pathfinder Society character for use in the module.
That's weird. Does anyone know the rationale behind this idea?
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That's weird. Does anyone know the rationale behind this idea?From the Pathfinder Society Rules for playing Cult of the Ebon Destroyers:
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing
Pathfinder Society character for use in the module.
I'd assume because the module isn't an actual PFS adventure, lasts longer than 1 session (usually 3-4), and development doesn't make assumptions about Pathfinder society etc., so some modules may be significantly harder than normal and be "TPK machines," and this rule prevents that from destroying a large string of PFS characters. Also because they'll sanction modules of levels higher than 12 I believe.
To the original question: We have to wait for an official answer, but I'd bet that we're allowed to make a character of appropriate level with all Pathfinder Society legal feats/traits, with a GP value of the WBL table on page 399 of the Core Rulebook. As for the GP limit... I'd bet it would be based on 4.5 PA per level, so for level 8 it would probably end up being 31.5 PA (1st level does not add PA), so a max item cost of 16,500. Of course, this is just speculation, but I'd assume it's something close to this.
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That's weird. Does anyone know the rationale behind this idea?From the Pathfinder Society Rules for playing Cult of the Ebon Destroyers:
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing
Pathfinder Society character for use in the module.
So you can play it...
Modules are a beast all to themselves, they have specific rules because of that. They don't fall into normal Society rules, so some adjustments where made, to include allowing people to make higher level version of their characters to allow them to play it.
That's weird. Does anyone know the rationale behind this idea?So you can play it...
Huh? How would restricting the module to (sub)tier 7-8 characters make it unplayable, for example?
I'd assume because the module isn't an actual PFS adventure, lasts longer than 1 session (usually 3-4), and development doesn't make assumptions about Pathfinder society etc., so some modules may be significantly harder than normal and be "TPK machines," and this rule prevents that from destroying a large string of PFS characters.
An interesting idea, although I don't like the idea of weak and tough modules mixed together without advanced warning.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Huh? How would restricting the module to (sub)tier 7-8 characters make it unplayable, for example?That's weird. Does anyone know the rationale behind this idea?So you can play it...
It's quite hard to get a group of people of the right level together for 1 session let alone more. This way you just have to get the people together and not worry about the levels.
I for one will try to play modules with a character that is the right level, but that's a personal choice
It's quite hard to get a group of people of the right level together for 1 session let alone more. This way you just have to get the people together and not worry about the levels.
I guess that makes sense. Thanks!
Director of Brand Strategy
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How does one go about creating an appropriate level version of an existing character for a mid-to-high level PFS legal module such as Cult of the Ebon Destroyers?
Using CotED as an example:
I assume that I could use an existing level 10 character and go back to what they were like at level 8. How does this work if you don't have anything higher than level 6? How do you handle wealth and item access?
We've updated the pdf to explain how to do so for an 8th level character. Wealth for an adjusted PC is based on page 399 of the Core Rulebook, with max cost per item set at 1/2 total wealth. An adjusted PC is assumed to have no PA, and uses only the wealth per level table to determine item access.
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We've updated the pdf to explain how to do so for an 8th level character. Wealth for an adjusted PC is based on page 399 of the Core Rulebook, with max cost per item set at 1/2 total wealth. An adjusted PC is assumed to have no PA, and uses only the wealth per level table to determine item access.
Thanks Mark!
Is it legal to apply the credit to an existing PFS character that has yet to actually adventure?
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We've updated the pdf to explain how to do so for an 8th level character. Wealth for an adjusted PC is based on page 399 of the Core Rulebook, with max cost per item set at 1/2 total wealth. An adjusted PC is assumed to have no PA, and uses only the wealth per level table to determine item access.How does one go about creating an appropriate level version of an existing character for a mid-to-high level PFS legal module such as Cult of the Ebon Destroyers?
Using CotED as an example:
I assume that I could use an existing level 10 character and go back to what they were like at level 8. How does this work if you don't have anything higher than level 6? How do you handle wealth and item access?
Can I ask for a clarification here?
With 0 PA, it would seem that (assuming a new character built for the campaign) the character would be limited to a +1 weapon, +1 armor, and virtually no other magic items.
Is this correct?
(I have no problem with the rule either way, I'm just trying to clarify what the rule is.)
Thanks!
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Can I ask for a clarification here?
With 0 PA, it would seem that (assuming a new character built for the campaign) the character would be limited to a +1 weapon, +1 armor, and virtually no other magic items.
Is this correct?
(I have no problem with the rule either way, I'm just trying to clarify what the rule is.)
Thanks!
I am not sure I understand the question..
This is the rule for Adjusted Character from the new rules for the Mod.
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing Pathfinder Society character for use in the module. This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp. Such a character is considered to have no Prestige Award.
I am assuming the No PA rule is so they can't use stuff from Chart 11-1 in the PFS guide.
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Can I ask for a clarification here?
With 0 PA, it would seem that (assuming a new character built for the campaign) the character would be limited to a +1 weapon, +1 armor, and virtually no other magic items.
Is this correct?
(I have no problem with the rule either way, I'm just trying to clarify what the rule is.)
Thanks!
I am not sure I understand the question..
This is the rule for Adjusted Character from the new rules for the Mod.
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing Pathfinder Society character for use in the module. This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp. Such a character is considered to have no Prestige Award.I am assuming the No PA rule is so they can't use stuff from Chart 11-1 in the PFS guide.
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted
to purchasing additional items from his accumulated
chronicle sheets (see Chapter 9, Step 3), or through his
PA with his faction (see Chapter 11). Weapons, armor,
equipment, magic items and so on that are outside of these
lists are not available for purchase at any time.
Without PA, a character could have "Always Available" items, such as mithral or adamantine weapons or armor, but could not buy anything not "Always Available". (As Table 11-2 would still seem to apply.)
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Stuff
I am still confused..
The rules for Adjusting Characters for the mod are as such
This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp.
That is the rule, the other thing you quote has nothing to do with it... This is the rule for "Adjusting for the Module"
That is the rule for normal play, this is not normal play and is an adjustment to address that.
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StuffI am still confused..
The rules for Adjusting Characters for the mod are as such
This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp.
That is the rule, the other thing you quote has nothing to do with it... This is the rule for "Adjusting for the Module"
That is the rule for normal play, this is not normal play and is an adjustment to address that.
The "No single item worth more than 16,500 gp" does not say that table 11-2 does not apply. Even with table 11-2 applying, this could simply mean that a character cannot have +1 adamantine full plate, as (even though it is on the "always available" list, it would cost (15000+1500+1000) 17,500 gp and thus be over the 16,500 gp limit.
So the question is. Does the "no single item" imply that Table 11-2 and "Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items from his accumulated chronicle sheets (see Chapter 9, Step 3), or through his PA with his faction (see Chapter 11). Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so on that are outside of these lists are not available for purchase at any time." do not apply, and that any allowed content item can be purchased, even though the character has no PA?
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StuffI am still confused..
The rules for Adjusting Characters for the mod are as such
This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp.
That is the rule, the other thing you quote has nothing to do with it... This is the rule for "Adjusting for the Module"
That is the rule for normal play, this is not normal play and is an adjustment to address that.
This might seem obvious to you, but it isn't to me. Part of the reason that it is not obvious is that my 8th level character does not have sufficient TPA to purchase a 16,500 gp item per Table 11-2. So it would seem odd (and slightly less-than-fair) to me to show up at a table with an actual character who has leveled to 8th level, and have players with newly created characters sit down with better gear than I can purchase.
Again. I'm asking what the rule actually means. Because what it says does not say that the "Always Available"/Table 11-2 rules do not apply. The rule as written simply appears to make an additional limitation on the character that any gear it has (within legal limits) can also cost no more than 16,500gp.
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One thing I am still confused about is this 8th level adjusted character.
I guess as I read it, I could take Ricky Bobby, my 11th level Ranged Mutt of Flying Rain of Doom, "recreate" his 8th level with appropriate gold/access per Core, and play him?
But what happens then? Do I not get the gold or PA for the mod because that would actually be a level's worth of free stuff basically, and I just basically played an older version of my character in 3 mods just for fun?
Or do I get gold and PA? -- If yes, at what level range? 8th...or 11th?
Or, do I now actually have Ricky Bobby 2 who is at level 8 and I can play other mods with him?
Am I the only one confused at this? It wouldn't be the first time...I mean, I get "how" to build an 8th level character....I'm just foggy on what to do with him "after" the mod is over.
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Am I the only one confused at this? It wouldn't be the first time...I mean, I get "how" to build an 8th level character....I'm just foggy on what to do with him "after" the mod is over.
My unofficial understanding is that the 'forked' character blinks out of existence once the Chronicle is integrated back into the original character. The 8th level forked version of Ricky Bobby returns whence he came prior to Cult of the Ebon Destroyer, to nowheresville :)
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Note: The following is MY understanding of the rules issues that have confounded people in this thread:
A player may also create an 8th-level version of an existing
Pathfinder Society character for use in the module. This
character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no
single item worth more than 16,500 gp. Such a character
is considered to have no Prestige Award.
1) To me, this would mean that you don't have to worry about PA limits, but, instead, about more "normal" character generation rules.
So, no more than half your "starting wealth" in any single item, which, IIRC, is the normal rules for creating a character beyond first level.
For those who feel that this is unfair, you might want to tote up the total value for your "regular" PFS PC at that level. You may not have a single item worth 16,500 GP; but the odds strongly favor you having moer GP value in your gear than 33,000 GP. You will have had the benefit of "real" gold accumulation, as well as having PA to use for various 150 & 750 GP items.
2) The character created, if you need to dummy up an 8th level PC based off of one of your out-of-tier PCs, is just a temporary "alternate reality" version, who is only in existence during the course of the module, and goes away at the end.
For those who complain about playing a module and giving the credit for it to an out-of-tier PC, the C is out-of-tier for properly PLAYING the module, but the Chronicle Sheet, just like the Chronicle SHeet for The Godsmouth Heresy, contains gold as appropriate for the chosen PC's real tier.
So, for playing either sanctioned module, assuming a perfect game, so no deaths, attended all sessions, etc.; your PC would acquire 3 XP, 4 PA and gold as approriate for his actual level before gaining the level from XP. As a matter of fact, the gold tiering rule is based off of the GM Rewards tiering.
If a character dies
during the module, the player may make a new legal PC and
the GM will integrate the new character as soon as possible.
3) This is the one piece that still has me somewhat confused.
Do you need to adapt/play a different PFS PC, or can you just create a place-filler, since you are going to give the CS to the character you started the module with. And, anyhow, is there a reason you couldn't just recreate the same PC?
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I think I agree with the OP...do we even need to go down this path at all?
I see Dragnmoon's ideas on why he thinks this is being done, but really, it doesn't make much sense. This amount of rule discussion and eventual bloat is completely necessary. (No offense to DMoon, of course, I think he's trying to see the bright side.)
We don't *need* to allow players to fork their characters to play in this mod. The rules could be 1) play your lvl 7, 8, or 9 character or 2) play a 7th lvl pre-gen, end of story.
Is this something we can discuss or change?
-Pain
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Given that the rules, so far, have come packaged alongside each of the modules, I might say that it is possible that later modules may have different rules if the current rules do not work out.
Although, I do like the rules because, otherwise (if the create an 8th level version of a character wasn't there), I would be rather unlikely to actually run this module. Some players just wouldn't want to play if the only option they were given was to play a pre-gen that they have no attachment to. Since my goal is not to let everyone have a good time, I would have to throw out the idea of running the adventure right then and there.
At convention play it might be different but, in my home PFS game, I'm almost certain that I would be able to get a game where everyone plays if I said everyone makes a 8th level PFS character with these rules. I'm similarly certain that, if I said that I would be a game where everyone had to play pregens (or everyone except the one or two people with a character in range), there would be not enough people to form a group.
Right now, I feel that this rule is necessary for me to actually enjoy running this without going mad trying schedule it so all my players can play with their characters.
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Since one way to play Ebon Destroyers is to create an 8th-level version of one of your current PFS characters, this might be a way of revisiting favourite characters that have since retired from play at 12th-level.
It might encourage players to keep a copy of their old character sheets each time they level up to re-appear in possible flash-back sequences or tavern tales such as these.
Just a thought.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
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Just a thought.
An aspect that I do like about being able to fork your character is that it gives you a playground for experimentation. It gives you a way to preserve the personally of a character concept and play that character in a different light perhaps. Take you level 2 guy and push him up to 8. You'll see how much/how well your concept for him works at higher levels. Or as you mentioned you might be able to 'play down' a retired or close to retired character to spend more time with that character. Maybe you regret your 7th level feat choice or wondered 'what if I took this feat instead.' Here you go, find out.
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Wouldn't the best way to word access to items by saying that the "Characters TPA (Total Prestige Award) is equal to the character level minus one multiplied by 4.5, rounded down. The character does not have any CPA (Current Prestige Award). Total gold available is equal to double the maximum item value cost from table 11-2 in the Guide to Pathfinder Society."
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Wouldn't the best way to word access to items by saying that the "Characters TPA (Total Prestige Award) is equal to the character level minus one multiplied by 4.5, rounded down. The character does not have any CPA (Current Prestige Award). Total gold available is equal to double the maximum item value cost from table 11-2 in the Guide to Pathfinder Society."
that is a billion times more confusion then just saying..
This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp
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Just a thought.An aspect that I do like about being able to fork your character is that it gives you a playground for experimentation. It gives you a way to preserve the personally of a character concept and play that character in a different light perhaps. Take you level 2 guy and push him up to 8. You'll see how much/how well your concept for him works at higher levels. Or as you mentioned you might be able to 'play down' a retired or close to retired character to spend more time with that character. Maybe you regret your 7th level feat choice or wondered 'what if I took this feat instead.' Here you go, find out.
I actually completely agree with this. I already made up a gunslinger and ninja just for this "experimentation" if we decide to run this soon.
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Wouldn't the best way to word access to items by saying that the "Characters TPA (Total Prestige Award) is equal to the character level minus one multiplied by 4.5, rounded down. The character does not have any CPA (Current Prestige Award). Total gold available is equal to double the maximum item value cost from table 11-2 in the Guide to Pathfinder Society."that is a billion times more confusion then just saying..
This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp
The reason to say it this way is for expansion. If Paizo wanted to calculate it for every module that would work too.
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The reason to say it this way is for expansion. If Paizo wanted to calculate it for every module that would work too.Wouldn't the best way to word access to items by saying that the "Characters TPA (Total Prestige Award) is equal to the character level minus one multiplied by 4.5, rounded down. The character does not have any CPA (Current Prestige Award). Total gold available is equal to double the maximum item value cost from table 11-2 in the Guide to Pathfinder Society."that is a billion times more confusion then just saying..
This character may have up to 33,000 gp in total wealth, with no single item worth more than 16,500 gp
Either way, it is still more confusing then saying it the way it already has.
The current rule is easy to understand *Not withstanding Brother Elias confusion* and simple, no reason to put any kind of complication into it.