I am currently running a Kingmaker campaign and the issue of how to identify a supernatural ability came up in the last session. Unsure of how to handle this I did a quick search of the message boards but I didn't see anything obvious. Looking at the text for Knowledge Arcana, I see it can be used to identify a spell targeting you (DC 25 + spell lvl), and spellcraft can make a similar check at DC 15 + spell lvl. Can either of these checks be used to identify a supernatural ability, which is called out as being "not spell-like"? My ruling at the time followed a policy of "if I can't find the rule and it doesn't break the game don't waste everyone’s time and do whatever's in PC favour", meaning the enemy was unable to identify the Witch's misfortune Hex and continued cackle which contributed heavily to its rather swift demise. With the Witch a recent addition after the PC's wizard died, every session Su Abilities not tied to spells will come up and I want to get this right in the future; I see continued use of undetectable Su ability being really fun for the PC's until they face a monster with powerful Su abilities.
I am positive I'm missing or forgetting something really basic, but our next meeting is in a few days and I really want to get it right next time. If anyone knows the answer or can link me to the appropriate thread it would really help.
Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells
I generally run it as a "It cannot be identified but the person doing it can be figured out"
I mean, you wouldn't know when the Witch was making you Unlucky, but you'd know the Witch did it somehow at some time, and now they're laughing/snickering/staring at you blankly (cackle doesn't actually have any components so it can be anything really), so they'd be fair game to be killed to make it go away.
kind of like how someone throws water on you the morning after a party, you might not know who did it, but seeing as someone is trying their very best not to laugh, you can hazard an educated guess.
SU's are normally tied to monsters so you need a knowledge check. If it is for a witch I would require a knowledge arcana check if class abilities are not commonly known.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.
Supernatural abilities are like spells in that they are magical, and can be detected with detect magic and similar spells.
They are unlike spells in that they are not the formal term "Spell-like abilities", which references something else.
You can't use Spellcraft to notice a supernatural ability, because the user isn't using any verbal or somatic components and you therefore can't "see the spell as it is being cast". It's the same with Stilled Silent spells.
You *can* use magical detection to spot them. You *can* notice the actions being taken to effect them (like some of the witch's hexes) and make appropriate Knowledge checks or reasonable in-character guesses.
If someone targets you with an effect requiring a save and you save successfully, I usually rule that you're aware of the fact. So if someone uses a supernatural ability to try to dominate you and you succeed, I'd describe as follows:
"For a moment, you feel a crushing presence attempt to invade your mind. Sweat breaks out on your forehead as you force it back."
So a character might know (or guess) that they've been the target of such an ability, but that wouldn't let them know where it was coming from. Again, unless it was blatantly obvious, like the vampire who's making eye contact with you.
Hope that helps!
Traditionally are group has run SU being unidentifiable but it has caused frustration for both the players and myself on separate occasions; previously it simply occurred too infrequently to look up the proper method of identification.
SU's are normally tied to monsters so you need a knowledge check. If it is for a witch I would require a knowledge arcana check if class abilities are not commonly known.
I like this idea, but how would one set the DC for that? I don’t see anything under arcana for that, although from Sir Ophiuchus advice I see arcane sight and detect magic gives a 15 + 1/2 caster lvl for spellcraft check to identify the aura of non-spell effects. I'd prefer a way to identify the actual ability and not making extra effort figuring what aura and school each SU ability should be from. I guess my biggest concern is I feel creatures and NPC's should be able to recognize the misfortune hex affecting them, or at least realize to get outside the Witch's cackle range.
To Sir Ophiuchus, I think your confusing some reasonable house rules for RAW. Its not because SU abilities have no VSM component that you can't spellcraft it; spell-like abilities also have no VSM but are identifiable not because the caster is perfectly still but because the spell itself produces an effect; here's a link still/silent spell identification. In summary, spellcraft means you need to see the spell, not the hand waving chant to identify it. SU has no such effect from what I’ve read. Also, ruling that you don’t know a still silent spell is being cast means no AoO nerfing melee and possibly leading down the road of caster shenanigans.
Your absolutely correct that you would feel some effect and I suppose a reasonable assumption from the creature would be that the one standing perfectly still and doing nothing might be the one targeting them; I would however like a more concrete method than making every fourth monster Sherlock Homes using reasoning and deduction to identify the Witch.
[qoute=PRPG page 216-217:]
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.[/QOUTE]
Therefore a character targeted by a supernatural ability would know they are targeted, but would lack any method of identifying the effect (sure they could detect magic themselves in combat, but that would be strange when the BBEG calls for a time out to concentrate for 3 rounds to find out what aura and school is affecting him) also note supernatural can not be dispelled so even if he detects it he can't do anything about it.
I guess if I can't find anything I'll have to go with what my fine fellow board members have suggested and use the reasonable deduction route mixed with some high knowledge arcana check, but I would preferably like more solid basis.