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So my PCs in the AP I’m running are fated for a confrontation with one or several of these. The problem is, I don’t see how any party that does not overpower the suggested CR by at least 50 can beat a will-o-wisp.
- Ultra-high AC
- Immunity to magic, except for magic missile and maze
- Insane melee TOUCH attack and damage
- At-will invisibility
And that’s just the highlights.
In-game I’ve dropped some hints, and they’ve done some in-game research and have prepared the best they can with scrolls of energy [electricty], wands of magic missile, tanglefoot bags (or whatever they’re called), and such, but even so…AC 26?? And one of them is using an advanced template so…AC 28????
So to the veterans, those who know all the tricks of the trade: What am I missing here? What is the achilles heel? How can an even-leveled party hope to survive against this encounter, let alone hit it, let alone do enough damage to actually kill one of these?
Not all of the party can do magic missile, is the monster so poorly designed as to be the Baron von Bad Ass at this level? Unbeatable but for one single thing?
Gotta help me out here, I fear for my poor PCs!
As a player in someone else game
Wizard = Glitterdust = (will save to negate blindness) = Make it visible.
Wizard/Bard = See Invisibly (BEST Option) < Spell resistance NONE >
Cleric = Invisibility Purge (No spell Resistance listed for spell = Might assume this means NONE, ask the DM what he desire)
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All = Resist Energy vs Electricity 10 ( 20 at 7th level) = Its only attack is a shocking touch for 2d8 (16 damage) max. If you have a 7th level caster, you can at least shut its damage down for a short while.
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Any weapon will hurt it, assuming you can get past its high AC.
Spell that do not allow Spell Resistance (which still work on a Will-o-wisp)
Acid Arrow (no save)
Acid Fog (no save)
Acid Splash (no save)
Black Tentacles (no save)
Cloudkill (Fort partial)
Control Winds (Fort save)
Creeping Doom (Fort partial)
Flame Arrow (no save)
Fire Seeds (none or Refex half)
Incendiary Cloud (Reflex save)
Insect Plague (no save)
Obscuring Mist (no save)=Smoke screen to run
Reverse Gravity (no save)
Snare (no save)
Solid Fog (no save)
Stinking Cloud (Fort save)
Summon Swarm (no save)
Time Stop (no save)
Wall of Force (no save)
Wall of Stone (Refex save to avoid being traped)
Wall of Thorns (no Save) just listing it, not much help vs flying :(
Web (reflex save)
APG
Acid Pit (reflex save) = Maybe combo with web or something vs flying.
Aqueous Orb (reflex save)
Clashing Rocks (refex Partial)
Deafening Song Bolt (no save)
Defection (Turn the creature attack back on itself)
Dust of Twilight (Fort save vs Fatigued)
Elemental Touch (varies by touch)
Firefall (Will or Refex negate)
Geyser (Refex partial)
Gravity Bow (--See DM--)
Hungry Pit (Reflex save) = Maybe combo with web or something vs flying.
Instant Enemy (no save)
Stone Call (no save)
Tsunami (see text)
Wall of Lava (see text)
Anyway that was just a quick run throw, sure there are other personal spell i did not list, and some i missed.
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PS = If it was me, i would run Away. And go buy an Arrow of Slaying :)
Dust of Appearance is usable by anyone, even fighters, and is a good thing for any adventurers to have on hand.
True Strike will take care of high AC, especially if combined with some variety of slaying arrow.
Mirror Image is an excellent protection for magic types, as the wisp will have a great deal of trouble finding the right target to attack while the wizard just drains a wand of magic missiles.
The main thing that's needed, however, is some variety of high speed flight for when the wisp decides to fly away, as it should the moment its prey turns out to be too dangerous. A scroll of Mass Fly is good for such eventualities.
I am also running an AP with a lot of wisps, and a "boss" wisp if you will. I think they are great ! this is when the melee tanks shine. they stand there, take the zap, and then beat it down. this is one of the few times that you can all but kick the magic out of the fight.
I ran an encounter with a wisp last night myself, and was unprepared when the cleric cast invisibility purge. I assumed it wouldn't work, but I looked it up and could not find anything about whether or not spell resistance applied. In the absence of proof that SR worked on it, I ruled that the wisp was not immune and the invisibility purge worked. It seems highly strange, though. Is that working as intended?
I ran an encounter with a wisp last night myself, and was unprepared when the cleric cast invisibility purge. I assumed it wouldn't work, but I looked it up and could not find anything about whether or not spell resistance applied. In the absence of proof that SR worked on it, I ruled that the wisp was not immune and the invisibility purge worked. It seems highly strange, though. Is that working as intended?
Will-o-wisps are naturally invisible, so I do not see how making them visible is possible.
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I ran an encounter with a wisp last night myself, and was unprepared when the cleric cast invisibility purge. I assumed it wouldn't work, but I looked it up and could not find anything about whether or not spell resistance applied. In the absence of proof that SR worked on it, I ruled that the wisp was not immune and the invisibility purge worked. It seems highly strange, though. Is that working as intended?
Yes. It does not make sense because some things area naturally invisible though.
I think it was made to get rid of magical invisibility, but it certainly was not written that way
PRD:You surround yourself with a sphere of power with a radius of 5 feet per caster level that negates all forms of invisibility.
Anything invisible becomes visible while in the area.
A good time to hit the FAQ button I guess.
Done!
truestrike + tanglefoot bag pretty much eliminates any threat from a will-o-wisp. The weight puts it into meduium load eliminating its dex bonus to AC and the bag doesn't go invisible with it so there is no defense there. It pretty much becomes a sitting duck.
26 AC isn't really that bad by the time your encountering them arround level 4. Your full BAB should be able to hit on ~16+. Add in aid annother and flanking and you have a decent chance to hit. They don't have so much HP that they should survive that long.
Obsuring Mist has been really helpful to my group. Adding a 20% miss chance to its decent damage has been great and saved a couple lives the first couple times they encountered them.
truestrike + tanglefoot bag pretty much eliminates any threat from a will-o-wisp. The weight puts it into meduium load eliminating its dex bonus to AC and the bag doesn't go invisible with it so there is no defense there. It pretty much becomes a sitting duck.
26 AC isn't really that bad by the time your encountering them arround level 4. Your full BAB should be able to hit on ~16+. Add in aid annother and flanking and you have a decent chance to hit. They don't have so much HP that they should survive that long.
Obsuring Mist has been really helpful to my group. Adding a 20% miss chance to its decent damage has been great and saved a couple lives the first couple times they encountered them.
How are you getting a +16 attack bonus at level 4?
BAB 4STR 4(maybe)
Weapon(1)
Weapon focus(1)
Random buffs(2)*
Flank (2)*
I see a 14(maybe), but you can't really assume the WoW does not kill the casters before they can buff or it stays in a flank position. The 18 to strength might hard to come by if the game is 15 pb or stats are rolled.
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26 AC isn't really that bad by the time your encountering them arround level 4. Your full BAB should be able to hit on ~16+.How are you getting a +16 attack bonus at level 4?
I *think* Caineach was saying that you should be able to hit on a 16 or better, not that you should have a +16 attack bonus.
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Glitterdust + True Strike + Net
This gives you 1 round (or more) to have your way with the wisp, whacking it with dex damaging poisons, full attacks, or further grapple checks. It will beat the escape DC (the -4 to dex drops escape artist to +19, so it autowins still), so you'll have to act fast.
Wisp's are a tough cookie. I personally like to torment the party, by having one following them 70' away, then getting close and feeding on the agony of the bad guys when battle breaks out, taunting and thanking the party. Of course, when see invisibility comes out of the pack, the party begins chasing the wisp, who then retreats back out of the range of the spell.
They're tough, but not invincible. They still require a move action to turn invisible. And they still become visible on a strike (since they become invisible per the spell, not improved invisibility).
I have a party that usually shreds things, and the Will-o-wisp was tough, but they took it down with a little planning. Glitterdust helps.
Making them advanced with character levels will really mess with a party. Heh.
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Making them advanced with character levels will really mess with a party. Heh.
Wisps with Rogue levels are cruel, cruel things. ZARK! Take 2d8 electrical +3d6 sneak attack!
Sorcerer and Cleric (Old Cults) levels are creepy.
The Wisp Bard attempting to fascinate and / or suggest people round after round while his buddies zap them (or just do the legendary Wisp thing and lure them into a dangerous place) can also be mean.
They're tough, but not invincible. They still require a move action to turn invisible. And they still become visible on a strike (since they become invisible per the spell, not improved invisibility).
I have a party that usually shreds things, and the Will-o-wisp was tough, but they took it down with a little planning. Glitterdust helps.
Making them advanced with character levels will really mess with a party. Heh.
>:) Why yes, yes it does ... a party of wisps as foes ... fun !
Something I like to do with will-o-wisp at lower levels (especially after someone else GMing for my TPK'ed a large, wellworking 2nd level party with one will-o-wisp - yes, it was an unplanned random encounter) is to focus on the idea that they (especially at the start) don't attack unless someone is directly feeling afraid, is wounded or dying - and attacking a low level party while one is wounded or dying is mean, so usually only if one is scared.
This doesn't mean they can't see the will-o-wisp at some distance - enough distance not to scare them too obviously (let it move towards, say, a dying animal somewhere away from the characters) - and get an experience with will-o-wisps before actually battling one.
Hope they survive it (even if they get a bad scare)
Insane melee TOUCH attack and damage
Wait, how is this insane?
Melee shock +16 touch (2d8 electricity)
That's 9 points of damage on average. A CL 1 CLW wand heals 5.5 a round on average. That means he's doing an average of 3.5 (1d6) points of damage a round. 2 sources of healing completely negates this damage. A resist energy at lowest caster level also negates it on average.
A wand of magic missile CL 1 (750 gp) does 3.5 points of damage per cast. The will'o'wisp has 40 hp, so in 12 rounds on average he's dead. Actually casting the magic missile (and getting multiple shots) drastically speeds up the fight.
While your character wielding the magic missile wand might not have the 48 hp to survive the encounter, he typically doesn't need it. Your teammates won't hit 28 AC often, but if they hack enough they'll get a hit or two in.
And you can negate the natural invisibility with something as simple as flour.
Glitterdust + True Strike + Net
This gives you 1 round (or more) to have your way with the wisp, whacking it with dex damaging poisons, full attacks, or further grapple checks. It will beat the escape DC (the -4 to dex drops escape artist to +19, so it autowins still), so you'll have to act fast.
Wisp's are a tough cookie. I personally like to torment the party, by having one following them 70' away, then getting close and feeding on the agony of the bad guys when battle breaks out, taunting and thanking the party. Of course, when see invisibility comes out of the pack, the party begins chasing the wisp, who then retreats back out of the range of the spell.
Why bother with dex damage poisons. Str damage all the way. Deal 3 points and it has 0. I made them immune to poisons in my game because its just too easy and does not make sense.
Wraithstrike, Set is correct. I was saying they should have ~+10 to hit at level 4, and thus be hitting on a ~16+. 4 BAB, 3-5 str, 1 weapon focus, 1 mw/magical weapon. Though combine that with other misc bonuses and a 16 insn't that obscene. Heirloom weapon (+1 trait), spells (bless), bardic song, flank. Overall, I don't think it is out of line for a melee character to be hitting on a 10, but I also don't think that should be a norm for a will-o-wisp either.
Wisps with Rogue levels are cruel, cruel things. ZARK! Take 2d8 electrical +3d6 sneak attack!
Sorcerer and Cleric (Old Cults) levels are creepy.
The Wisp Bard attempting to fascinate and / or suggest people round after round while his buddies zap them (or just do the legendary Wisp thing and lure them into a dangerous place) can also be mean.
I had thought of adding in class levels to my "band" of will-o-wisps as well to make them an interesting encounter at higher levels for my PC's. Rogue levels were my first thought, but as you show, other class levels are quite interesting as well. /salute!
P.S. I added in my wisp band (The Seven Brothers) in the Lower Quarter of Mivon. They haunt the quarter at night and hole up in an abandoned and haunted tenement during the day. Fun stuff!
Why bother with dex damage poisons. Str damage all the way. Deal 3 points and it has 0. I made them immune to poisons in my game because its just too easy and does not make sense.
Heh, it's easier to kill a will-o'-wisp with poison than with magic missile. Stealing this idea (:
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Why bother with dex damage poisons. Str damage all the way. Deal 3 points and it has 0. I made them immune to poisons in my game because its just too easy and does not make sense.Heh, it's easier to kill a will-o'-wisp with poison than with magic missile. Stealing this idea (:
I think this is one of the few examples where Poison is really effective.
This is a nasty meta-game thing IMO.
"My character found out on the internet that will-o-the-wisps are pretty easy to kill with poison."
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This is a nasty meta-game thing IMO.
"My character found out on the internet that will-o-the-wisps are pretty easy to kill with poison."
Poisons doing attribute damage (and doing it so *fast*) is a freaky game concept anyway.
In any event, as a GM, I might tinker with the reliability of poison on creatures with wildly alien metabolisms, such as most aberrations. I usually tinker with creatures anyway, so stuff read in the book is rarely reliable (although I allow Knowledge checks to work normally and offer hints and stuff).
This is a nasty meta-game thing IMO.
"My character found out on the internet that will-o-the-wisps are pretty easy to kill with poison."
That's up for the GM to decide.
Identify a monster's abilities and weaknesses DC = 10 + monster's CR
A strength of 1 seems like a special vulnerability or weakness to me. . .
And rogues also get knowledge:dungeoneering too. . . hmmm. . . (:
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For the Original Poster, resist energy (electricity) makes WoW encounters almost laughably easy. Unless you get surprised by them, they should be a cake-walk. The initial encounter might be a bit of a shock but for the rest of the encounters you know what to expect and with that one preparation it's a cake walk.
If you can't bypass their invisibility with glitterdust, ready an action to attack when they appear.
They can only use their invisibility once a round, if you provoke attacks of opportunity they are visible until their next turn. (They are pretty smart so they might key in onto this though).
True strike not only gives a +20 on attack rolls, it ignores concealment. So as long as you know where they are you should hit.
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This is a nasty meta-game thing IMO.
"My character found out on the internet that will-o-the-wisps are pretty easy to kill with poison."
That's up for the GM to decide.
Identify a monster's abilities and weaknesses DC = 10 + monster's CRA strength of 1 seems like a special vulnerability or weakness to me. . .
And rogues also get knowledge:dungeoneering too. . . hmmm. . . (:
Fair enough. I'm not passing judgment on how anyone plays, I'm just pointing it out.
The whole player knowledge versus character knowledge barrier is a little weird when many of us know tons of game rules things our characters shouldn't. I find myself constantly tempted.
I implemented an idea I had wherein different wisps discharge different types of elemental damage. I also gave one a short ranged touch attack (25 ft.) rather than a melee touch attack. The idea was to keep the PC's on their toes and provide some flavor for a multi-wisp encounter. The different elemental attacks would be reflected by the wisp's color more or less (blue = cold, red = fire, yellow/white = electrical, etc.).
I implemented an idea I had wherein different wisps discharge different types of elemental damage. I also gave one a short ranged touch attack (25 ft.) rather than a melee touch attack. The idea was to keep the PC's on their toes and provide some flavor for a multi-wisp encounter. The different elemental attacks would be reflected by the wisp's color more or less (blue = cold, red = fire, yellow/white = electrical, etc.).
You should see the nasty buggers I cooked up for my group. Stole the entropy-infused template and modded the wisps to deal disintegration damage. No cheesy resist energy stops there only attack mode now! And yes, it was 2d8 or so damage, ouchies, but nothing bad.
Well ... until you're on Candlemere with 24 of them ...
[insert gleeful cackling here]