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First, here's the ability:
Possession (Su) To use this ability, the bdellavritra must be on the same plane as the targeted creature and make a successful grapple attempt against the victim. If the bdellavritra can maintain a grapple with a creature for a whole round, the target must make a DC 25 Will save to resist being possessed. If the creature fails, the bdellavritra possesses the creature, gaining control of the being and shunting its own body to the Ethereal Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (caster level 17th), except that it does not require a receptacle. A creature that successfully saves is immune to that same bdellavritra’s possession ability for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based. A bdellavritra cannot use this ability while on the Outer Planes or any other area not connected to the Ethereal Plane.
While possessing a creature, a bdellavritra can relinquish or retake control of its host body whenever it pleases, without leaving the host’s body. The host creature becomes immune to all other mind-affecting effects while possessed. Even when not in control, the devil can still sense the world by using its host’s senses. Any attempt to detect thoughts or alignment, or similar divination effects cast upon the host, detects only the properties of the entity controlling the body at that time, whether it be the host or the bdellavritra. If the bdellavritra is forced from its host’s body, the host body is slain, or the devil voluntarily gives up control, its consciousness instantly returns to its body on the Ethereal Plane. A bdellavritra is subconsciously aware of its body’s condition and immediate surroundings on the Ethereal Plane. Should its body be damaged or have a creature or threat approach within 5 feet, the devil likely relinquishes control of its host and returns its consciousness to its true body to defend itself.
Nowhere in that description do I see answers to these two questions:
1. Does the possessed creature gain the racial types of the possessor? Specifically, does it gain the Outsider type or any of the {devil,evil,extraplanar,lawful} subtypes? I need to know this to resolve the effects of a banishment spell.
2. Assuming that the banishment spell DOES apply, how long would the possessor be required to stay on its own plane? I know other sources say that some extraplanar creatures who are destroyed while on the Prime Material plane spend years in the void before their body reforms on their home plane, but I see nothing in the descriptions of the dismissal or banishment spells about this.
General question regarding spell-like abilities:
1. SLAs that mimic spells with material components don't require them. But what about greater scrying? Does the creature need a scrying device? If not, could the creature have multiple of those effects running at once? This could be particularly useful for Sermignatto as he can cast it 3/day. This also applies to plane shift -- can Sermignatto send a target creature to any plane?
General spell questions:
1. How does waves of exhaustion interact with haste? Say Sermi casts WoE which cuts the party members speed in half. When the wizard casts haste, their speed has 30 feet added. Is it done in the order the effects took place? So cut speed in half, then add 30 feet? Or does WoE first change the targets "normal speed" (as stated by the haste spell) to be half of normal, then add 30 feet? I'm looking both for the reasoning as to why you would apply them in a particular order, then how you would apply them in this case.
Last, what are some good tactics for the bdellavritra? It looks like blasphemy first is a no-brainer. Then maybe try to plane shift one of the fighters or rogues (lower will saves) somewhere. (See material component question, above.) How can persistent image be used to best effect?
I'm playing this 3.5 module in PF Final, so keep in mind that a slight power up is probably okay -- my party is 5 PCs of mostly 13th level so this could be a tough fight as-is: fighter12, wizard12, ranger10/monk3, grappling barbarian13+cohort (cleric10), rogue2/cleric3/wizard3/mystic theurge5 (pseudodragon familiar).
Thanks for reading this far, everyone!
1. How does waves of exhaustion interact with haste? Say Sermi casts WoE which cuts the party members speed in half. When the wizard casts haste, their speed has 30 feet added. Is it done in the order the effects took place? So cut speed in half, then add 30 feet? Or does WoE first change the targets "normal speed" (as stated by the haste spell) to be half of normal, then add 30 feet? I'm looking both for the reasoning as to why you would apply them in a particular order, then how you would apply them in this case.
You add 30 and then cut it in half.
WoE doesn't make them run at half speed. It makes them exhausted, which makes them move at half speed. It's not spell effects stacking. WoE doesn't make them "move at half speed", exhausted does.
So, just like wearing armor, you add 30 to their base speed and adjust. ie, a normal joe w/out armor would get (30+30)x1/2 for 30, and a heavy armored cleric would get (30+30)=60=40(armor encumbrance adjustment)x1/2 for 20.
Last, what are some good tactics for the bdellavritra? It looks like blasphemy first is a no-brainer. Then maybe try to plane shift one of the fighters or rogues (lower will saves) somewhere. (See material component question, above.) How can persistent image be used to best effect?
I see he lost at-will etherealness. That was a major lynchpin in the tactics he took in my game (also because I made it quickened to make him more successful at hit and run).
I would... have him use possession and use a focus for magic jar. ("Is not required"=/=does not use or cannot use) Beforehand, in wherever he plans to ambush the PCs, he sets up a persistent image of a terrible monster-- like a pit fiend, or some hellish duke-- whose script is to monologue when someone gets near. He puts the jar nearby on a high ledge. Possession from the jar into the fighter, or whomever, depending on how you view the phrase "When a belier devil uses its magic jar spell-like ability, it can identify and pinpoint life forces accurately,
allowing it to select its victims with ease." and the fact that you normally cannot select exact targets with magic jar-- and then he starts fighting with that person, trying to provoke as many AoOs as possible and to hurt them and themselves as much as possible.
Then when he's shunted out of magic jar, he appears on the ceiling of the room (where he chose to go unconscious after using magic jar), out of reach of the melee types, and just melees a lot maybe. Disarming and tripping and grappling and constricting and blood draining people.
Another good tactic would be to cast demand through scrying on the wizard or cleric and have him burn his spell component pouch. Or, have the fighter throw his weapon out of the window.
He could also teleport in after scrying, get a surprise round, cast dominate on someone and then teleport away. Hit and run. Teleport in, acid fog. Teleport in during a battle and mass suggestion the PCs to drop their weapons. Teleport in during a battle and use dispel magic on everyone before leaving.
I miss the old bdellavritra. Etherealness was way too awesome-- a PC followed him into the ethereal plane and I almost dimensional locked them there. If only he wasn't a cleric! Alas.
For the killer DM who wants to be part of a horror story posted on paizo.com:
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I see he lost at-will etherealness. That was a major lynchpin in the tactics he took in my game (also because I made it quickened to make him more successful at hit and run).
Are you referring to some Paizo reference when you say this? I plan to run him like he is in the AP, but with feats and racial abilities to match PF vs. D&D3.5.
Thanks for your input, btw. I figured with so many people running CotCT I would have gotten more responses but beggars can't be choosers. ;)
Sorry to bring this thread out of the grave, but I'm running this adventure Converted to PFRPG and my players are getting close to Castle Korvosa (Crown of Fangs).
A few questions regarding the tactics of Sermignatto (using the PF version of the Belier Devil - Bdellavritra):
- The PF version can't use the Ethereal hit-and-run tactics outlined for the 3.5 version. But its Magic Jar ability comes close, however, with only a DC22 Will save to avoid, and only usuable 1/day, it won't be very effective. This means it will have to resort to a "fair fight", correct?
- One possible encounter location for Sermignatto is room A90 (Domina's Study; page 45). This room is only 10x10 feet. That can barely fit all the PCs, never mind a Large creature like the Belier Devil. Even assuming the devil flies/hovers at the ceiling 30 feet above, it will not have room to use its devil summoning ability.
How did other DMs handle a PF version of Sermignatto?
My players entered A90, Sermignato teleported in hit them with blasphamey and then the paladin hammered him.
In retrospect, I suggest the following tactic should your PC's deal with him in A90. Use the devil summoning ability first, then have those devils teleport to defend A90. Sermignato can teleport in simultaneously or a round later behind the party and engage them from both sides attempting to gain control of a weak willed PC.
