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I am, based off of a discussion on crossbows, tempted to try this character as a PFS build:
Svetlana Chusev, Human Ranger 1, 5'7", 130 lbs.
STR 12[2], DEX 16+2[5], CON 13[3], INT 12[2], WIS 13[3], CHA 10 [20 pts]
Traits: Anatomist, Sacred Touch
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload [Heavy Crossbow]
Skills: Climb/5 (1+1+3=5), Heal/5 (1+1+3), Perception/5 (1+1+3), Stealth/8 (1+4+3), Survival/5 (1+1+3), Track/5 (1+1+3), Knowledge (dungeoneering)/5 (1+1+3), Knowledge (geography)/5 (1+1+3), Knowledge (Nature)/5 (1+1+3), all others at default.
Equipment:
25 Studded Leather Armor
100 Heavy Crossbow (Large)
10 Short Sword
5 25 Crossbow Bolts (Large)
10 GP for 'last minute shopping'.
Now, her schtick is that she's a 'big game hunter' - she brings down large, dangerous targets at as long a range as possible with that oversized crossbow. At 2nd level, assuming she lives that long, she's getting Rapid Shot, and at 3rd, Crossbow Mastery. (Expect her to use Gravity Bow a lot, as well.)
1) Is using a weapon that's a step larger than is normal for your size rating allowed in PFS play? Insofar as I can tell, she'd be firing at -2 to hit for 2d8 damage rather than 1d10, but would not be able to fire the thing one handed - no shields for her.
2) Even if it is allowed, is taking something as downright...odd...as a big honking crossbow viable in terms of being able to upgrade it with spent cash? I am assuming that, say, if the Big Bad Guy is using a +1 frost longsword, I can't convert that +1 frost bonus into an enchantment on her Big Honkin' Crossbow. But could I spend gold on getting a Masterwork Darkwood Large Heavy Crossbow ("I think I'm gonna name it...'Vera'...) and later have that enchanted appropriately?
3) Would a ranger who sucks as badly at melee as she will be a viable party member for PFS stuff?
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A heavy crossbow needs to be two handed to use properly. 1 size step up would make it unusable. Sizing up moves it one step up in the "handed" category, and there is nothing beyond two-handed
This looks more like a rules problem, not really specific to the Society.
on the #3, ranged focused can come in handy in PFS. I have played with several that were focused totally on ranged combat. I do not think you would "suck badly" at melee. Should maybe have a greatsword as a melee backup.
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If you want her to use an exotic crossbow that will be an eyecatcher, you might consider the Minotaur Double Crossbow out of Classic Monsters Revisited. Of course, the cost of the weapon is beyond a new character's reach so you would need to invest in either the exotic weapon feat at 3rd level or get a little silly and take the Additional Traits feat to get an Heirloom Weapon (Adventurer's Armory). You could come up with a cool backstory on how your grand-daddy acquired a Minotaur Double Crossbow. Mechanically the MDC is not attractive but the flavor is cool.
Minotaur Double Crossbow
Minotaurs have a love of complicated things, and
the double crossbow is one of their favorites. This
heavy weapon fires a pair of iron-tipped bolts with
deadly accuracy. Due to its size and weight, however,
non-proficient wielders suffer a –8 penalty on their
attack rolls. Even proficient wielders take a –2 penalty on
their attack rolls. If the attack is successful, the target takes
the listed damage twice, although critical hits and precision-based
damage are only applied to one of the bolts. Reloading
a double crossbow takes 2 standard actions (one for each bolt),
although the Rapid Reload feat reduces this to 2 move actions
(meaning that it can be accomplished in 1 round).
Exotic Weapon
Cost 300 gp
Dmg (S) 1d6
Dmg (M) 1d8
Dmg (L) 2d6
Critical 19–20/x2
Range 100 ft.
Weight 18 lb.
Type Piercing
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I'm with Shar Tahl on this one. Check out the Core Rulebook on page 144 where it discusses Inappropriately Sized Weapons.
If I were trying to set up something like this then I'd go with the following progression:
Level 1: Point Blank Shot, Far Shot
Level 2: Precise Shot
Level 3: Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Repeating Heavy Crossbow
Level 5: Rapid Shot
This would have your character using a standard heavy crossbow or longbow until she got to level 3.
Also note that if you were going to go with a Composite Longbow built with a +1 strength rating you would have the same average damage that a heavy crossbow does without having to burn a feat to get an Exotic Weapon Proficiency so you could fire a heavy crossbow fast enough to take advantage of Rapid Shot. Thus you would be able to get rapid shot at level 3 instead of level 5. If you were to juggle your character's point buy so that she had a strength of 14 she could get a +2 strength composite longbow and end up with a minimum damage of 3, average damage of 6.5 and max damage of 10 (not counting point blank shot add, in which case the numbers are 4, 7.5 and 11). Now, if one adds in her favored enemy damage bonus with point blank shot the numbers increase to (6, 9.5 and 13) in which case you're actually beating the average baseline damage of the large crossbow that you wanted initially (2d8 averages out to 9 points of damage).
I think you should double check your point buy for your character, as I only see 15 points having been spent.
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A heavy crossbow needs to be two handed to use properly. 1 size step up would make it unusable. Sizing up moves it one step up in the "handed" category, and there is nothing beyond two-handed
This looks more like a rules problem, not really specific to the Society.
This is a gray area, actually. The heavy crossbow can be fired one handed. It cannot be reloaded one handed. This means that it MIGHT still be usable as a large weapon, but require two hands to fire. It would definitely require two hands to reload.
While it's 'taking advantage' of a rules gray area, it's not grossly game breaking. In MOST ways, yes, I'm better off with the bog standard archery ranger, though see below.
on the #3, ranged focused can come in handy in PFS. I have played with several that were focused totally on ranged combat. I do not think you would "suck badly" at melee. Should maybe have a greatsword as a melee backup.
Good to know.
Also note that if you were going to go with a Composite Longbow built with a +1 strength rating you would have the same average damage that a heavy crossbow does without having to burn a feat to get an Exotic Weapon Proficiency so you could fire a heavy crossbow fast enough to take advantage of Rapid Shot. Thus you would be able to get rapid shot at level 3 instead of level 5. If you were to juggle your character's point buy so that she had a strength of 14 she could get a +2 strength composite longbow and end up with a minimum damage of 3, average damage of 6.5 and max damage of 10 (not counting point blank shot add, in which case the numbers are 4, 7.5 and 11). Now, if one adds in her favored enemy damage bonus with point blank shot the numbers increase to (6, 9.5 and 13) in which case you're actually beating the average baseline damage of the large crossbow that you wanted initially (2d8 averages out to 9 points of damage).
There are some synergies I'm trying to catch here.
The first is that a composite longbow is out of the price range of a 1st level character. The Large Heavy Crossbow is not.
The the second is damage at range. Assuming that my interpretation of Large Heavy Crossbow is legal, (and if I'm wrong, this character concept doesn't work as written, and I'll do something else.) casting gravity bow turns the damage from 2d8 to 4d6 per shot at very long range. That's 14 damage per shot, which is roughly equal to a composite longbow with +10 damage from assorted bonuses, and is BEFORE her Favored Enemy bonuses.
The third is that crossbow mastery means no Attacks of Opportunity when firing the crossbow at someone in an adjacent square, which is the ONLY thing Crossbows get that bows do not in these rules.
Obviously, this is contingent on a wierd rules interpretation.
I think you should double check your point buy for your character, as I only see 15 points having been spent.
Nope, I screwed it up I listed 5 for DEX 16+2, rather than 10. Let's look at this instead:
STR 12[2], DEX 17+2[13], CON 12[2], INT 12[2], WIS 12[2], CHA 9 [-1] [20 pts]
IF the concept turns viable, I plan on switching the second trait from Indomitable Faith to Gifted Adept [shield] and make level 2 a dip into Wizard of the Transmuter school, using an Arcane Bonded Item. Spells will largely be shield and gravity bow at that level, and I'll be getting armor that gives me a 5-10% ASF chance (Mithril Studded leather)
What inspired this was someone doing the following:
EWP: Bastard Sword, Large Bastard Sword (100 GP), and waiting until they could cast Lead Blades (while also making a ranger with a good STR)
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1) Is using a weapon that's a step larger than is normal for your size rating allowed in PFS play? Insofar as I can tell, she'd be firing at -2 to hit for 2d8 damage rather than 1d10, but would not be able to fire the thing one handed - no shields for her.
You can buy and upgrade inappropriately sized weapons in PFS. As to using an inappropriately sized projectile weapon, PFS follows the core rules. There was a discussion on this yesterday, with my post on the matter (which disagrees with Shar Tahl) here:
Inappropriately Sized Weapon Discussion. The rules discussion itself is appropriate for that thread and is off topic for this forum.What is on topic for this forum is the effects of an area of known variance in organized play. Regardless of which position is correct, as others have pointed out, relying on a concept for which you know there will be substantial variance is a bad idea in organized play. It doesn't matter if it is an area that is oft misunderstood, an area where there are multiple interpretations of ambiguous text, or whatever gives rise to the difference of opinion.
There are some of these situations where you can develop tactics to handle either/all of the table variances. There are other situations where you can't. This is one of the latter, because you're tied into equipment purchases. I'd avoid this concept.
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The quick answer to the large-sized weapon:
If it's already two-handed for your character at the appropriate size (medium for medium, small for small), then you CAN NOT wield a weapon that's larger than the appropriate size.
Agreed, even if the OP doesn't. :-)
Now, I may be at a disadvantage here because I've only got the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary, but I'd like to know how he figured the cost and the weight for that weapon. I suspect he might have been going off rules that were developed for armor that may or may not directly apply to weapons.
I was also under the impression that characters technically weren't supposed to spend more than 1/2 of their starting wealth on any one item. But in this setting characters have a starting wealth of 150, which would make his 100 gp weapon too expensive.
Essentially he's looking for the Pathfinder equivalent of a modern day rifle chambered in .50 BMG. The problem is even with advances in modern technology that is a beast to try to use, and the only times I've ever seen such weapons fired for real with live ammo the shooters were prone and using bipods or other rests. Getting back to Pathfinder's generally Medieval level of technology they simply couldn't scale things that well then. To say nothing of not having a muzzle brake equivalent to dampen the recoil. Unless of course you use magic, which takes the weapon well beyond the means of a starting character.
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The quick answer to the large-sized weapon:
If it's already two-handed for your character at the appropriate size (medium for medium, small for small), then you CAN NOT wield a weapon that's larger than the appropriate size.
Here's what the rules actually say:
Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Weapons
This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon's size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
Note that the last paragraph refers to the text in the first spoiler, which is explicitly referring only to melee weapons.
That said, this should go over to this thread mentioned a few posts up.
Clearly, even if legal, this character concept and her crossbow, would result in me having to have an argument of justification every time I showed up to play, and that's not going to be fun for me or anyone else. So, retired.
The pricing was using the guidelines for large weapons in the rulebook, which says 'double the size and the weight of the weapon'.
There is no restriction that says that a 1st level character is limited to 75 GP in a single purchase for starting gear. If there were, nobody would be able to buy a composite longbow for starting equipment, even with no STR adds.
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There is no restriction that says that a 1st level character is limited to 75 GP in a single purchase for starting gear. If there were, nobody would be able to buy a composite longbow for starting equipment, even with no STR adds.
My bad. I went back and double checked, and the prohibition against spending more than 1/2 a character's wealth on one item is for characters that are starting above 1st level.
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My bad. I went back and double checked, and the prohibition against spending more than 1/2 a character's wealth on one item is for characters that are starting above 1st level.
There is no restriction that says that a 1st level character is limited to 75 GP in a single purchase for starting gear. If there were, nobody would be able to buy a composite longbow for starting equipment, even with no STR adds.
I want to make sure for other people that it is clear he means in the conversion rules from those that still have not converted their character from 3.5 in season 0.
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All right, take two on the build, going conventional archery.
Human Ranger, Heart of the Wilderness race feature, Archery combat style, possibly with the Guide archetype.
STR 12[2], DEX 17+2=19[13], CON 12[2], INT 12[2], WIS 12[2], CHA 9[-1] (20 point buy)
Traits: Gifted Adept (shield), Anatomist
Feats: Dodge, Run
Favored Class Bonus: Hit Point.
Skills (7 ranks): Climb/5 (1+1+3), Heal/5 (1+1+3), Perception/5 (1+1+3), Stealth/8 (1+4+3), Survival/5 (1+1+3), Track/5 (1+1+3), Knowledge (geography)/5 (1+1+3), Knowledge (nature)/5 (1+1+3), all others at default.
Gear: Longbow (75 GP), Scimitar (15 GP), Studded Leather (25 GP), 20 arrows (1 GP), 34 GP left for sundries.
Attacks are +5 to hit with the longbow, +2 to hit with the scimitar.
I plan on taking a level of Wizard (specialty school of Transmutation) at 2nd, with a bonded object of an amulet. The Transmutation bonus will be going into DEX. The spellbook (4 spells) will be Gravity Bow, Shield (CL 2nd), Expeditious Retreat, Disguise Self. The spells prepared will typically be Shield, Shield, Gravity Bow and a fourth spontaneously cast from the amulet.
At the end of 2nd level, a Masterwork STR 12 Composite Longbow is at the exact limit of what I can get with 1,000 GP of gear, no more than half in any single item.
3rd level is where I pick up Rapid Shot (Ranger bonus) and Mobility. Also at the end of 3rd level, I spend cash on getting Mithral Studded Leather, just to reduce the ASF numbers down to 1 in 20 from 3 in 20.
In scenario play, is being able to cover 150' in one combat round at full AC likely to be useful? I mostly see it as a schtick to be used to get around the fight - if it looks like someone might be able to get close enough to me to melee, this lets me move somewhere else that's likely to be a full two turns of movement away from them (nearly 4 turns if they're in heavy armor) to resume shooting.
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There's nothing in this build that jumps out at me and screams that it's wrong :-) Most of what I have to say boils down to quibbles. ;-)
While it's good that your character can cover 150 feet in one round if he has to, the potential problem as I see it is that if he gets stuck in a tactical situation where he can't maneuver he's going to be at a disadvantage. Also, the round that you're taking to move that 150 feet is a round that somebody else can spend shooting at you. Granted they won't be as effective with their fire as you will be with yours, but they're still getting their shot in and you're not. It's also a round that your character really isn't supporting other party members that well.
Going with a wizard multiclass option has both benefits and pitfalls. Studded leather's arcane spell failure chance is 15%, which while not high does have the potential to cause problems. You might want to get the Arcane Armor Training feat at some point in your character's career. Of course though, if you decide to depend on wands then it won't be that much of a problem.
I'm not sure that "mithral studded leather" actually exists. Yes, you can replace the regular metal studs with mithral studs, but the metal studs are actually a small component of the armor, the primary component being leather. Now if you wanted to go for a mithral chain shirt then that should work quite nicely. The fact that it's mithral would reduce the arcane spell failure (ASF) chance from 20% to 10%, and then if you took the arcane armor training feat the ASF would drop to zero. And you would still be able to get your +4 bonus to AC from a DEX of 19.
Oops, arcane armor training requires spell caster 3rd level, you said you only wanted one level worth of wizard. Assuming that "mithral studded leather" doesn't exist, then you're looking at having to live with a 15% ASF, or going with 3 levels of wizard, getting the arcane armor training feat, and then getting a mithral chain shirt.
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I'm not sure that "mithral studded leather" actually exists. Yes, you can replace the regular metal studs with mithral studs, but the metal studs are actually a small component of the armor, the primary component being leather.
Oops, arcane armor training requires spell caster 3rd level, you said you only wanted one level worth of wizard. Assuming that "mithral studded leather" doesn't exist, then you're looking at having to live with a 15% ASF, or going with 3 levels of wizard, getting the arcane armor training feat, and then getting a mithral chain shirt.
Studded leather is equivalent of Brigandine armor I think. It had metal plates riveted into it, hence the studding. I think there is enough metal to have it mithril
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Since Magical Knack seems more powerful than Gifted Adept, PFS doesn't allow it, which is probably the right decision. I'd originally built the character around Magical Knack and taking the Wizard level at 3 with Arcane Armor Training. (This also gets me longer duration shield and gravity bow spells.)
The costs for Mithral armors just say Light, Medium and Heavy, and the section about "Not primarily made of metal" seems to be talking about weapons, not armor.
A mithril chain shirt is also an acceptable option; 1 better AC, 2 in 20 chance of failing a spell casting. Spellcasting for this character is a tertiary ability behind shooting and scouting/moving. Mostly I got the ability to use wands, and the ability to power up for early Big Boss Fights.
7th level feat(s) will likely be ManyShot (Ranger combat style) and Wind Stance (Standard).
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I plan on taking a level of Wizard (specialty school of Transmutation) at 2nd, with a bonded object of an amulet. The Transmutation bonus will be going into DEX. The spellbook (4 spells) will be Gravity Bow, Shield (CL 2nd), Expeditious Retreat, Disguise Self. The spells prepared will typically be Shield, Shield, Gravity Bow and a fourth spontaneously cast from the amulet.
Why not flip INT/CHA and dip a level into sorcerer? You can still take Gravity Bow and Shield, but get more uses, per day, of each. Later on when you get spells as a ranger, you can select Longstrider as a replacement for Expeditious Retreat. Of course, you'll loose the bonded object (and a few skill points) with this alternative.
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I plan on taking a level of Wizard (specialty school of Transmutation) at 2nd, with a bonded object of an amulet. The Transmutation bonus will be going into DEX. The spellbook (4 spells) will be Gravity Bow, Shield (CL 2nd), Expeditious Retreat, Disguise Self. The spells prepared will typically be Shield, Shield, Gravity Bow and a fourth spontaneously cast from the amulet.Why not flip INT/CHA and dip a level into sorcerer? You can still take Gravity Bow and Shield, but get more uses, per day, of each. Later on when you get spells as a ranger, you can select Longstrider as a replacement for Expeditious Retreat. Of course, you'll loose the bonded object (and a few skill points) with this alternative.
As a specialist wizard, I get 4 spells per day - 1 for being a wizard, 1 for INT, 1 for transmutation school, 1 for bonded object (spontaneous). I get a +1 floating bonus to even out odd physical stats, and I get a choice of up to 4 spells (one of which is spontaneous). I get a pathetic ranged attack. :)
As a sorcerer, I get 4 spells per day - 3 for being a sorcerer, 1 for CHA. I only get to choose two spells to cast, but they're all spontaneous. I get one more cantrip 'loaded' per day, but can never swap them out. I get a bloodline arcana that will (largely) be useless. I get a bloodline power that will generally be comparable to the transmuter's ranged attack ability, or, if Draconic, claws for four rounds per day.
And for the Sorcerer, I lose 2 skill points per level - which is what tips the balance for me.
I like Sorcerers, but for one level dips, they tend to be concept dependent. (And nothing throws down the blasty like a Sorcerer).
Once I start getting spells as a Ranger, I will probably swap out preparing the Gravity Bow spell on the Transmuter slot with an Expeditious Retreat. Being able to cover 60'/round as a move action is HANDY when you've got Shot on the Run (which is my plan for the 5th level feat), and no ASF on Gravity Bow is a good upgrade.
And of course, if I expect to NEED a lot of Gravity Bow casting, I can theoretically have 5 Gravity Bow spells prepped at level 5 since it's on both lists.
Spell Choices:
Gravity Bow: Best low-STR archery upgrade out there until Flaming Arrow wands fit into the budget. And it stacks with Flaming Arrow. :)
Shield: Every archer moans about the lack of AC. This helps. This helps so much that I took a Trait I can't use until 2nd level to double the duration on the spell. (Combats rarely last 20 rounds, but I've had a few that have lasted more than 10.)
Expeditious Retreat: Synergizes nicely with Run and Shot on the Run.
Disguise Self: "So, we need to get past this guard..." :)
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A couple of things you might be missing, in your build concept:
PA point purchases. A 2 PA point purchase can cover up to a 750 point item.
A masterwork darkwood composite longbow of up to Str +3 will fall within this price range.
A wand of Gravity Bow, which your Ranger can use as early as you can afford it, also falls within this price range, just like the old standby, the Wand of Cure Light Wounds, which your Ranger can also use out of the box.
You won't get access to Shield, but there are always potions of Shield of Faith available; and a Ring of Force Shield is PFSOP legal, once you get enough PA/gold to afford it.
Just a couple of things to think about.
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A couple of things you might be missing, in your build concept:
PA point purchases. A 2 PA point purchase can cover up to a 750 point item.
A masterwork darkwood composite longbow of up to Str +3 will fall within this price range.
What does the darkwood do for the bow, beyond trim 1.5 lbs of encumbrance weight?
Darkwood made sense when I was making a STR 12 Large Heavy Crossbow weilder - it shaved 8 lbs off the encumbrance.
While I've read the PA point rules, I'm still not entirely sure how PAs are earned and how you spend them, and whether they count against the 'WBL' limits. I've been looking at them as "I'll think on that when I hit 2nd..." and not really factoring them in.
A wand of Gravity Bow, which your Ranger can use as early as you can afford it, also falls within this price range, just like the old standby, the Wand of Cure Light Wounds, which your Ranger can also use out of the box.
You won't get access to Shield, but there are always potions of Shield of Faith available; and a Ring of Force Shield is PFSOP legal, once you get enough PA/gold to afford it.
Just a couple of things to think about.
One of the major reasons for taking a 1 level dip into an arcane class is the plethora of wands that can be had, particularly of spells that I would find useful, but a random pickup party isn't likely to have prepped. (Who preps Flaming Arrows, for example?)
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One of the major reasons for taking a 1 level dip into an arcane class is the plethora of wands that can be had, particularly of spells that I would find useful, but a random pickup party isn't likely to have prepped. (Who preps Flaming Arrows, for example?)
Having played an archer in Living Greyhawk: The folks who have flaming arrows prepped are the ones you ask to prep it. If you have the means, you can provide scrolls. For the folks that you play with regularly, ask them to prep it. Practice the explanation that you are merely the vector of their spell's awesome damage over time.
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A couple of things you might be missing, in your build concept:
PA point purchases. A 2 PA point purchase can cover up to a 750 point item.
A masterwork darkwood composite longbow of up to Str +3 will fall within this price range.
What does the darkwood do for the bow, beyond trim 1.5 lbs of encumbrance weight?
Darkwood made sense when I was making a STR 12 Large Heavy Crossbow weilder - it shaved 8 lbs off the encumbrance.
While I've read the PA point rules, I'm still not entirely sure how PAs are earned and how you spend them, and whether they count against the 'WBL' limits. I've been looking at them as "I'll think on that when I hit 2nd..." and not really factoring them in.
I think it adds to the bow's HP and hardness, but it has never come up for my 9th level fighter, as well as the lightness. The weight was a serious factor for my character, though, as I spend some time making sure that he is always at light encumbrance, as the penalties, for a Dex build, for medium are painful.
PA:
PA are earned for suceeding at faction missions during your Pathfinder mission. Depending on the scenario, there will be 1-2 PA available to be earned during the module.
Assuming "average" PA gain of 1.5 per module, you should be able to spend 2 PA at the end of your second module for an item costing up to 750 GP. Note that the itme is a permanent acquisistion, but that it has a resale value of 0 GP, rather than the normal 50%.
As you spend PA, you have to track your PA as two numbers, CPA or Current PA, the amount of unspent PA your character has; and TPA, or Total PA, the total amount of PA your character has earned during his career.
CPA limits how much PA you have to spend, and a frequent goal for PCs is to accumulate 16 CPA in order to have a Raise Dead available.
TPA limits your item purchase access. At 0-3 TPA, as an example, you can buy mundane items, and the other items in the PFSOP Guide listed as always available, like +1 weapons, armor and shields, 50 GP potions, 100 GP oils, etc. At 4 TPA, you can now buy anything legal (check the lists starting on page 30) that costs 500 GP or less.
Exceptions:
2 PA purchases can be for items you cannot legally buy for gold, yet, like the various wands of first level spells.
Once you get have an item listed on a Chronicle Sheet, that item is available for purchase, no matter what your TPA is, subject to any buying limitations on the CS.
Unfortunately, some things can mess up the power curve for item purchase.
You can buy +1 Full Plate whenever you can afford it. The same holds true for having the Full Plate made out of Mithril or Adamantine. On teh down side, however, because of the serious base price increase for the special materials, you can afford, by TPA, to upgrade plain vanilla Full Plate to +2 long before you would have the TPA to upgrade Mithril or Adamantine Full Plate.
This effect is most serious for Heavy armor, but applies to Light & Medium armor and weapons. It takes more TPA to upgrade a Cold Iron longsword or Adamantien longsword than it does to upgrade a steel longsword.
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I think it adds to the bow's HP and hardness, but it has never come up for my 9th level fighter, as well as the lightness. The weight was a serious factor for my character, though, as I spend some time making sure that he is always at light encumbrance, as the penalties, for a Dex build, for medium are painful.
Yeah, when building the first version of the Crossbow Big Game Hunter, I tried to keep her STR at 10; the 33 lb limit on encumbrance put paid to that.
Assuming "average" PA gain of 1.5 per module, you should be able to spend 2 PA at the end of your second module for an item costing up to 750 GP. Note that the itme is a permanent acquisistion, but that it has a resale value of 0 GP, rather than the normal 50%.
So in essence, it's a way to to go above the WBL limits by spending a different currency?
CPA limits how much PA you have to spend, and a frequent goal for PCs is to accumulate 16 CPA in order to have a Raise Dead available.
TPA limits your item purchase access. At 0-3 TPA, as an example, you can buy mundane items, and the other items in the PFSOP Guide listed as always available, like +1 weapons, armor and shields, 50 GP potions, 100 GP oils, etc. At 4 TPA, you can now buy anything legal (check the lists starting on page 30) that costs 500 GP or less.
And if you want to spend gold on something, it has to be either on the 'always available' list, or something in a Chronicle Sheet, yes?
This effect is most serious for Heavy armor, but applies to Light & Medium armor and weapons. It takes more TPA to upgrade a Cold Iron longsword or Adamantien longsword than it does to upgrade a steel longsword.
So special materials can blow things past their usual 'category limits'. Got it.
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Yeah, when building the first version of the Crossbow Big Game Hunter, I tried to keep her STR at 10; the 33 lb limit on encumbrance put paid to that.
I think it adds to the bow's HP and hardness, but it has never come up for my 9th level fighter, as well as the lightness. The weight was a serious factor for my character, though, as I spend some time making sure that he is always at light encumbrance, as the penalties, for a Dex build, for medium are painful.
My build is 16 Str, but the weight limits are amazingly low, given what my low-strength me can carry without problems...
The haversack and efficient quivers help, though, once you can buy them.
Assuming "average" PA gain of 1.5 per module, you should be able to spend 2 PA at the end of your second module for an item costing up to 750 GP. Note that the itme is a permanent acquisistion, but that it has a resale value of 0 GP, rather than the normal 50%.So in essence, it's a way to to go above the WBL limits by spending a different currency?
No, PA purchases are already factored into Paizo's calculations for the campaign. Not spending aome PA for some low-cost items probably puts you behind the expected gold curve...
And if you want to spend gold on something, it has to be either on the 'always available' list, or something in a Chronicle Sheet, yes?CPA limits how much PA you have to spend, and a frequent goal for PCs is to accumulate 16 CPA in order to have a Raise Dead available.
TPA limits your item purchase access. At 0-3 TPA, as an example, you can buy mundane items, and the other items in the PFSOP Guide listed as always available, like +1 weapons, armor and shields, 50 GP potions, 100 GP oils, etc. At 4 TPA, you can now buy anything legal (check the lists starting on page 30) that costs 500 GP or less.
Ummm. No. You can always buy something on the always available list, correct. You can always (within any buying limits given) buy items from your Chronicle Sheets, correct. However, as your total Prestige Award earned goes up, you can buy items up to a TPA-determined maximum GP value from items that are listed as campaign legal but not always available.
Examples include the Handy Haversack and Efficient Quiver I mentioned above. 0 TPA, where you start, limits you to always available, and anything on the Chronicle Sheet(s) you have gained.
This effect is most serious for Heavy armor, but applies to Light & Medium armor and weapons. It takes more TPA to upgrade a Cold Iron longsword or Adamantien longsword than it does to upgrade a steel longsword.So special materials can blow things past their usual 'category limits'. Got it.
It is more that special materials add to the base price of an item, so they increase the amount of TPA needed to allow increases past what is always available.
+1 Full Plate (2650 GP), +1 Mithril Full Plate (11500 GP) and +1 Adamantine Full Plate (17500 GP) are always available.
However, the total cost to make each of them +2 instead of +1, while it is only a 3,000 GP expense in all cases, gives a different total GP value, which requires more TPA:
+2 FP: 5650 GP: 22 TPA
+2 MFP: 14500 GP: 31 TPA
+2 AFP: 20500 GP: 36 TPA
And, at +5, it is even more pronounced, if you can even get that much TPA:
FP: 26650 GP: 40 TPA, and room to add other enhancements
MFP: 35500 GP: 45 TPA, starting to get into a tight area
AFP: 41500 GP: 49 TPA, and running close to the PA cap
Remember that, in a perfect world, with 2 PA available and gained in each module, your PC could earn a maximum of 66 TPA at retirement. And that Leaves you at a nice gold cap of 120,000 GP...
At the Paizo mentioned 1.5 average, you would have earned 49 PA, which is only a GP cap of 54,000; and what would be needed for +5 AFP. Heh.
Just as a contrast, +5 chain shirt:
Plain: 25250 GP: 40 TPA
Mithril: 26100 GP: 40 TPA
Adamantine: 30100 GP: 40 TPA
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Ah so. Thank you for the information. While I'd read the sections on TPA and seen the table, I had not quite made the association that TPA was your limit on how much you could spend on an item of gear; I'd thought the limit on the WBL table regulated that.
(Or are these two separate caps?)
I'm also considering the following fighter build:
STR 16+2[10] DEX 14[5] CON 12[2] INT 13[3] WIS 12[2] CHA 8[-2]
Traits: Tomb Raider [Perception], Threatening Defender
Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge
Skills: Perception +6, Know (dungeoneering) +6, Know (engineering) +5, Survival +5.
Gear: Scale Armor, Halberd, 4 Pilums, 70 GP in liquid cash for buying more adventuring loot prior to the start of the scenario.
Favored Class to HPs until 3rd level, after that they go to the CMD defenses human fighters get.
4th level stat boost to INT, 8th and 12th to STR.
Feats after 1st: Weapon Focus [Halberd] (2), Improved Trip (3), Weapon Specialization (Halberd) (4), Not Sure (5), Greater Trip (6), Wind Stance (7)
A variation on this theme:
STR 15+2[7] DEX 14[5] CON 12[2] INT 14[5] WIS 13[3] CHA 8[-2]
Which drops him from a +5 for 1d10+6 to a +4 for 1d10+4 for combat at 1st level, but gives him an extra skill rank (that will probably go into Craft (chef) for the post scenario extra gold roll.)
4th level stat boost to STR, 8th level to WIS, 12th level to ???
Which is likelier to be a good 'table mate' - the dedicated melee version or the one with more skill loading up front? (The two are identical by 4th level, so this really only matters for levels 1-3 and level 8+, when the second build has a slightly less bad Will save. My gut hunch is that the first build is better, as the extra skill rank isn't in any 'scenario useful' skills)
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Also you might want to look in the APG for fighter variants, they may (or may not) fit your needs. Don't get too enamoured of them over the standard fighter as the later might be better for you. But its worth considering.
-James
The Phalanx Soldier Archetype or the Polearm Expert Archetype may be good fits with this build.
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Two things here:
1. Is a 7 CHA that much different from an 8 CHA? Go with the 7 CHA in order to bump INT to 14 at 1st level. Then you will be able to enjoy a 20 base STR for levels 8 through 11 that you wouldn't otherwise ever see but for 3 ending adventures.
Honestly, I'm not entirely happy with dropping CHA to 8. :) Yes, I know Charisma is the perfect dump stat for more than two thirds of the classes in the game, but it still feels 'slimy' to me. Plus, as a player, I actually enjoy roleplaying my characters (and tend to take initiative at the table), which is harder and harder to justify with a negative charisma mod.
2. You're going with combat reflexes and a trip build, why not use a reach weapon (or did they change the halberd into one for PF)?
It may be because I've had too many bad experiences with reach weapons. I've had enough DMs run someone through the 'corner hole' and get someone one square away and leave a beatdown on a reach weapon user. A second level polearm master sort of gets away from that. It's made me a real fan of holding a ready action and bracing.
Still, I'll consider a guisarm. (Nearly the same average damage, reach and trip rather than brace and trip.)
Also you might want to look in the APG for fighter variants, they may (or may not) fit your needs. Don't get too enamoured of them over the standard fighter as the later might be better for you. But its worth considering.
I've looked at them; polearm master archetype looks interesting. The Phalanx soldier's immediate brace is useful for a halbardier, less so for guisarm user. Both give up the ability to move full speed in armor, which I've come to value.
Oh and the TPA is the only spending cap (besides actual gold available to you), but it seems strongly based upon the PC expected wealth table.
The table in chapter 2 implies that it's character gold - or is that only for converting 3.5 edition characters up?
Think of spending PA as accounting for those consumables used during your career that aren't part of your expected wealth by a certain point. I'd make a list of things that are worthwhile for you to pick up with them (potion of fly, wand of infernal healing, etc).
Ayep.
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I agree with JM. It is a shame that there aren't more "fluffy" characters out there instead of all the hard "crunch." I think the problem is when you are the only "fluffy" character at the table. Your abilities tend to significantly fall behind the other players and you seem to be a weak build unless the GM really helps you out with a lot of role-playing. With the way society is run (limited time windows, no changing the scenarios, etc) it is a difficult challenge to play a "fluffy" character.
As an example, my barbarian was afraid of the dark. He always stuck close to any caster with Light or whoever was holding a torch. Made for some entertaining encounters at low-tier. Once he got a Wayfinder he lost his quirk. It didn't make sense for him to just not use the light function of the item.
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I have a (currently) second level tripping build. He is acually a Dex fighter, with Agile Maneuvers to let him get an effective trtip attack with his guisarme.
I stayed with standard fighter, but spent the 5 gold to buy a spiked gauntlet, which gives him something to get his (weak) AOs at adjacent enemies.
Build:
Human Male
Str 12 +1 (2); Dex (18+racial) 20 +5 (17); Con 12 +1 (2); Int 13 +1 (3); Wis 10 +0 (0); Cha 7 -2 (-4)
Traits: Bellis Honey Harvester; Reactionary
Feats: Agile Maneuvers (H); Combat Reflexes (L1); Combat Expertise (F1); Improved Trip (F2)
Skills: Diplomacy 2; Know (Dung) 2; Know (Eng) 1; Perception 1; Prof (Sailor) 2
Equipment: Mithral shirt (gotta use that Dex); masterwork guisarme; 5 daggers, sap; spiked gauntlet; masterwork backpack (adventurer's armory, I think); various supplies (currently carrying about 49.19 out of 50 possible pounds)
I am still somewhat torn between staying guisarme, for the ability to keep the opponents prone out of their normal attack ranges, or switch to spiked chain and add disarm... And weapon finesse.
It can be amusing to attempt Diplomacy with him, since he winds up at 0 with his two skill ranks...
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Traits: Bellis Honey HarvesterThis is a regional trait. Doesn't that make it illegal for PFS?
No.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Andoran, Spirit of Liberty:
Magic Items: all feather tokens, figurine of wondrous power (serpentine eagle), golden eagle epaulets, talon sword, talonstrike sword; Prestige Class: Steel Falcon (you must be a member of the Andoran Faction to join, as you’ll receive the invite from Captain Colson Maldriss; in order to use the Natural Traps ability your total character level must be equal to or exceed the CR of the trap, and all traps are subject to GM approval); Spells: detect charm, liberating command, suppress charms and compulsions, summon flight of eagles; Traits: Bellis Axe Master, Bellis Honey Harvester, Bellis Log Roller, Carpenden Lobber, Carpenden Roof Runner, Kobold’s Neighbor, Oregent Desperation, Oregent Timing, Oregent Vandal, Prismati Player