I have a question regarding insanities and dependency on alcohol and drugs. I have noticed that you can cure dependency with Remove Disease, which leads me to the logical conclusion that a paladin or monk of sufficient level is immune to the adverse effects of both.
However, I am not so sure with insanity. Are paladins immune, as they are diseases of the mind (or maybe immunity to fear is more relevant?) or is insanity something apart from both fear and disease?
I wouldn't treat insanity as a disease or a poison in the game. Game diseases may do rude things to your mind, but that's usually fluff to explain the loss to mental stats. Poisons, ditto. A person can be insane without being infected by something, be in perfect health, have no chemicals in the system--they saw the Great Old Ones and their mind couldn't handle the experience. You can be afraid without a physical primer (microbes, chemicals, etc.), so I'd rule the fear immunity as not being the same either. As such, I'd let paladins go insane too. Too much time staring into the Abyss :)
I believe that addictions are specifically called out as diseases, so I'd let paladins and monks of sufficient levels be immune. The moral and ethical consequences are something every group has to decide, however.
Rules for insanity is in the gamemastery guide and has nothing to do with disease or poison. They are usually the result of one of the mental ability scores being reduced to zero. The recovery for insanity is based on charisma however so in that regard most paladins would have an easier time overcoming such ailments.
I know how it works, but it seems unfinished. As it stands, it is outside the system in that it neither conforms nor adheres to the existing system of resistances and treatments. As if somehow, insanity is arbitrarily "above" other conditions, in that you can't prevent them.
Both from a game-design perspective and rules as intended, circumventing both the "disease" AND "fear" descriptor seems sloppy and ill thought through. I can agree that a paladin could get some kinds of insanities, but phobias? At 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise)
The definition of phobia (and several other forms of insanity) IS "irrational fear".
Insanity is cured by the 6th level cleric spell, 7th level druid spell = Heal.
Also, Greater Restoration, Limited wish, miracle , or wish can cure insanity.
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As an effect, magic item, or ranking = Insanity should be treated as a 7th level spell. As the 7th level wizard spell = Insanity is already in the game.
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I have a question regarding insanities and dependency on alcohol and drugs. I have noticed that you can cure dependency with Remove Disease, which leads me to the logical conclusion that a paladin or monk of sufficient level is immune to the adverse effects of both.
However, I am not so sure with insanity. Are paladins immune, as they are diseases of the mind (or maybe immunity to fear is more relevant?) or is insanity something apart from both fear and disease?
Although paladins are immune to disease, that doesn't mean they're immune to everything remove disease can fix.
Things that remove disease can fix that paladins are NOT immune to would include:
Parasites
Green slime
Insanity
Addiction
If any of those things are also fear effects (which some insanities should be... particularly phobias), then yeah, paladins would be immune... but not because they're immune to disease. Because they're immune to fear.
The rules for phobias don't out and say "Phobias are a fear effect," but then again they don't really have to, since the conditions it causes (frightened) IS a fear effect.
But as for insanities being tougher to fix than disease... yup. That's by design.
Although paladins are immune to disease, that doesn't mean they're immune to everything remove disease can fix.
Things that remove disease can fix that paladins are NOT immune to would include:
Parasites
Green slime
Insanity
AddictionIf any of those things are also fear effects (which some insanities should be... particularly phobias), then yeah, paladins would be immune... but not because they're immune to disease. Because they're immune to fear.
The rules for phobias don't out and say "Phobias are a fear effect," but then again they don't really have to, since the conditions it causes (frightened) IS a fear effect.
But as for insanities being tougher to fix than disease... yup. That's by design.
That actually addresses some of my gripes, as I find the idea of a paladin's most iconic ability be overruled by... well, ANYTHING... was a shot to the groin. The rest makes me happy I took Remove Disease as a Mercy with my paladin.
I am playing a samurai-type paladin, and adhere to Bushido. He is the party leader, and has sworn an oath of duty to the other members. Running away from his duty in fear is perhaps the worst form of dishonor in Bushido, and probably enough to make him fall, if not kill himself. And we're going through "Vaults of Madness" soon.
Ok, I am very confused.
Just wondering as i could not find that in PF phb or apg.
Alway thought addition were caused by drugs/alcohol, which were poison, and required Neutralize Poison.
Ok, I am very confused.
= When did Insanity become a disease that can be cured by Remove Disease. ?? Just wondering as i could not find that in PF phb or apg.
= When did Addition also become a disease that could be cured by Remove Disease ?? Alway thought addition were caused by drugs/alcohol, which were poison, and required Neutralize Poison.
last I checked, insanity was cured by heal, not remove disease, and heal fixes pretty much everything, so y'know that makes sense.
as for Addiction, Addiction has been concidered a Disease for a while, even IRL.
Ya but the FDA labels everything a Disease, so that it comes under there jurisdiction, so they can control and tax stuff.
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Scurvy is a disease resulting from a deficiency of vitamin C. But it is not really a Disease. It is a vitamin C deficiency.
Alcoholism is a disabling addictive disorder. Many try to label it as a disease, but it is not.
Heart disease or cardiopathy is an umbrella term for a variety of diseases affecting the heart. The harding of the arteries, should not be called a disease. It is the body multifunction of the cardiovascular system, due to a protein deficiency/disorder or throw bad eating habits resulting in an abundance of plague/fat in the cellular walls. But they call it a Disease, for shorthand.
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Really, If it is not caused by a Microbe, Germ, Parasite, Virus, Bacteria, or Fungus. Then it should not be called a Disease.
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The word Disease is over used in this day and age. It no longer means what it use to, do to its over use.
Much like the world Cancer... which is caused by 2,000 different things. Some virus, some genetic, some environmental (poisons like chemicals or radioactive material), some Bacterial, some are cellular damage (trauma or malnutrition).