rage powers and the rage spell

[Dirkfreemont]

Can a rage power such as knockback be used if someone casts the rage spell on the barbarian and he doesn't use his actual rage? How about clarity of mind? I know the furious weapon enchant out of APG works with the spell but didn't see anything in the spell description indicating either way as far as rage feats/ powers. Anyone have a link to where this is covered on the messageboards?

[Quandary]

Interesting... I would hazard that yes, it works.
Rage spell says it is otherwise identical to Rage, and Rage powers just say you need to be Raging.
Calm Emotions shuts both down, I don`t see why another spell couldn`t accomplish the reverse.
The stat/save bonuses are very weak even compared to 1st level Barbarian Rage (though AC penalty is the same), so I don´t think allowing characters with Rage Powers to use them during this spell is overpowered for a 3rd level spell... And the Barbarian can`t drop the Rage once affected, so can`t possibly use re-Raging tricks or even take needed actions outside of Rage.

I`m not sure what RAI is here (if this is a ´loophole` or not), but I rather like the outcome of this, a Caster using a spellslot to keep the Barbarian Raging an extra (Caster Level + Concentration) rounds seems cool to me.

[pobbes]

prd wrote:

Incite Rage (Su): At 6th level, a savage skald can induce a furious rage in one creature within 30 feet. This effect functions as a rage spell that lasts as long as the target can hear the bard's performance; however, unwilling creatures can be affected if they fail a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the bard's level + the bard's Cha modifier). Success renders the target immune to this power for 24 hours. The bard cannot target himself with this ability. If the target has the rage class feature, it can instead immediately rage and stay in this rage without consuming rounds of rage per day as long as the bard continues performing. This mind-affecting effect requires audible components. This performance replaces suggestion.

So, this is the description of the Incite Rage feature of the Savage Skald which is a bard variant in the APG. The emphasis is my own. This ability says that it acts as the rage spell, and then provides an exception that allows a barbarian to ignore the original effect and instead use their own rage. In other words, the rage spell does not allow a barbarian to access his rage powers. This bard variant is the way to allow a barbarian extra rounds of rage per day.

[Tryp]

pobbes wrote:

prd wrote:

Incite Rage (Su): At 6th level, a savage skald can induce a furious rage in one creature within 30 feet. This effect functions as a rage spell that lasts as long as the target can hear the bard's performance; however, unwilling creatures can be affected if they fail a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the bard's level + the bard's Cha modifier). Success renders the target immune to this power for 24 hours. The bard cannot target himself with this ability. If the target has the rage class feature, it can instead immediately rage and stay in this rage without consuming rounds of rage per day as long as the bard continues performing. This mind-affecting effect requires audible components. This performance replaces suggestion.

So, this is the description of the Incite Rage feature of the Savage Skald which is a bard variant in the APG. The emphasis is my own. This ability says that it acts as the rage spell, and then provides an exception that allows a barbarian to ignore the original effect and instead use their own rage. In other words, the rage spell does not allow a barbarian to access his rage powers. This bard variant is the way to allow a barbarian extra rounds of rage per day.

The Skald ability likely makes that distinction to give the barbarian the benefit of using their own modifiers for Rage, Greater Rage and Mighty Rage (ie. better modifiers than the rage spell). I would not use that as a basis for discounting the use of rage powers while under the effects of a Rage spell.

In fact, the last line in the Rage spell reads "The effect is otherwise identical with a barbarian’s rage except that the subjects aren’t fatigued at the end of the rage." Personally, I would allow a barbarian use of his rage powers, but that would be up to each individual GM.

[DrDew]

Allow it.

[Driver_325yards]

As a barbarian gains levels, she learns to use her rage in new ways. Starting at 2nd level, a barbarian gains a rage power. She gains another rage power for every two levels of barbarian attained after 2nd level. <b>A barbarian gains the benefits of rage powers only while raging</b>, and some of these powers require the barbarian to take an action first. Unless otherwise noted, a barbarian cannot select an individual power more than once.

[Driver_325yards]

Sorry, my point above is that a barbarian gains the benefits of his rage powers whenever he rages. It is clear that the rage spell makes him rage, albeit with inferior bonuses to strength and constitution. Nonetheless he is still raging.

Accordingly, I agree it should be allowed. Further, I think it could not be more clear in the rules. This has nothing to do with GM discretion.

If you GM won't allow this, start a mutiny, vote him down, or pack up your stuff and go home. Your GM is out of control.