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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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Part A
Bright light
Normal light
Dim light
Darkness
highlight for spells (w = mage, c = cleric)
Light caster lvl 0; one step up couter equel or lower spell lvl
Continual Flame caster lvl w2, c3; one step up couter equel or lower spell lvl
Daylight caster lvl 3; one step up couter equel or lower spell lvl
Sunurst caster lvl 8; none step couter equel or lower spell lvl
Darkness caster lvl 2; one step down couter equel or lower spell lvl
Deeper Darkness caster lvl c3; two step up couter equel or lower spell lvl
Dust of Twilght caster lvl 2; none step couter 2 or lower spell lvl
this part was never clear to me even back 3.0e D&D
were do nomal sun light start on the table?
were do darkness start on this table? like "a dark room what light are you using"?
were lights spells start on the talbe?
can you go higher then Bright light or even Darkness? like
Bright light
Bright light
Bright light
Normal light
Dim light
Darkness
Darkness
Darkness
and if so how dose that work with other light spells going at the some time?
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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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Not a stupid question chaoskin, just a particularly messy bit of the rules.
Try this instead. You'll have to ignore the stuff about darkness making you invisible - that's part of the broader rewrite I did elsewhere - but you can use the simpler lighting system without that:
* p172-173, Vision and Light:
(replace all text with the following: )
Dwarves and half-orcs have darkvision, but the other races presented in Chapter 2 need light to see by. See Table 7-10 for the illumination provided by light sources. Unless otherwise noted on the table, a light source provides normal light in a primary radius, and dim light in a secondary radius which extends as far again from the source as the primary illumination.
There are five intensities of light: bright, normal, dim, darkness and supernatural darkness. Most creatures have clear visual perception in bright and normal light, hindered visual perception in dim light, and no visual perception at all in darkness or supernatural darkness. However, some creatures are naturally suited to lower light intensities, or are hindered by higher light intensities, as described below.
When lighting conditions overlap, only the highest light intensity is relevant. Light intensities do not stack. A torch lit in clouded daylight (normal light) does not increase the environment’s illumination to bright light within 20’. A torch lit in moonlight (dim light) casts normal light in its primary 20’ radius, but does not noticeably increase the environment’s dim illumination in the secondary radius. A torch lit in darkness increases the light intensity to normal in the primary 20’ radius, and dim in the secondary 20’ radius.
Spells with the light or darkness descriptors interact slightly differently from other sources of light intensity. A spell with the light descriptor can be cast to counter or dispel any spell of equal or lower level with the darkness descriptor, and vice versa. Magical light sources brought into an area of magical darkness shed light only if they are of a higher level than the spell used to create the preexisting darkness, and vice versa. Nonmagical light sources shed no light in areas of magical darkness.
Intensities of Light : Bright light conditions and sources include direct sunlight and the daylight spell. Creatures with normal vision, low-light vision and darkvision can see clearly in bright light. Creatures with light sensitivity are dazzled in bright light. Creatures with light blindness are blinded for 1 round and dazzled thereafter in bright light. Unless it benefits from invisibility, cover or some non-light-based form of concealment (such as fog), a creature cannot use Stealth in a square illuminated by bright light.
Normal light conditions and sources include clouded daylight and the primary radii of most artificial lights, including the light spell. All creatures see clearly in normal light, unless their sight is impaired in some other way.
Dim light conditions and sources include moonlight, bright starlight, and the secondary radii of most artificial lights, including the light spell. The visual perception of most creatures is obscured by dim light, though creatures with darkvision see clearly within specified ranges, and those with low-light vision treat dim light as normal light (see Appendix 1). Some creatures have other advanced senses (such as blindsight) which allow them to ignore dim light partially or completely. Relative to a creature lacking low-light vision, darkvision or blindsight, creatures and objects in dim light have normal concealment (see Chapter 8).
Dark environments and sources include cloudy, moonless lights, most caverns, and the darkness spell. The visual perception of most creatures is entirely blocked by darkness, though creatures with darkvision can see clearly in such conditions within specified ranges. Some creatures have other advanced senses (such as blindsight) which allow them to ignore darkness partially or completely. Relative to a creature lacking darkvision or blindsight, all creatures and objects in darkness are invisible (see Appendix 1).
Supernatural darkness is created by certain magics, including the deeper darkness spell. The visual perception of most creatures is entirely blocked by supernatural darkness, though creatures with blindsight can ‘see’ clearly within specified ranges. Relative to a creature lacking blindsight, all creatures and objects in supernatural darkness are invisible.
Table 7-10: Light Sources and Illumination
Source ********** Primary ********** Secondary
Candle********** n/a (1) ********** 5’
Daylight ********** 60’ (2) ********** 60’
Lamp ********** 15’ ********** 15’
Lantern, bullseye ********** 60’ cone (3) ********** 60’ cone
Lantern, hooded ********** 30’ ********** 30’
Sunrod ********** 30’ ********** 30’
Torch (4) ********** 20’ ********** 20’
1: a candle provides dim light intensity, but no normal light intensity
2: a daylight spell provides bright light in its primary radius, and normal light in its secondary radius
3: a bullseye lantern provides light in a 120’ cone, of which the initial 60’ is primary and the final 60’ secondary
4: the spells continual flame , dancing lights and light cast light as torches
* p442, Darkness:
(replace second to eleventh paragraphs with the following: )
A perceptor that cannot see a creature or object due to intervening darkness treats such creatures and objects as invisible presences (see Appendix 1). A perceptor surrounded by darkness it cannot visually penetrate is blinded (see Appendix 2). For more details on darkness and vision, see Chapter 7.
*****
Note that the 5th light level Supernatural Darkness ONLY happens when you cast the deeper darkness spell in an area of Dim light or Darkness.
--Vrock 'em Sock 'em Robots
Quote: Bright light conditions and sources include direct sunlight and the daylight spell.
Normal light conditions and sources include clouded daylight
Dim light conditions and sources include moonlight, bright starlight,
Dark environments and sources include cloudy, moonless lights, most caverns, and the darkness spell.
Supernatural darkness is created by certain magics, including the deeper darkness spell.
danm hit on the head but there one thing i help with
Quote: Light
Level bard 0, cleric 0, druid 0, sorcerer/ wizard 0
part 1
by one step, up to normal light (darkness becomes dim light, and dim light becomes normal light). In an area of normal or bright light, this spell has no effect.
part2
Light can be used to counter or dispel any darkness spell of equal or lower spell level.
Continual Flame
Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 2
A flame, equivalent in brightness to a torch, springs forth from an object that you touch. The effect looks like a regular flame, but it creates no heat and doesn’t use oxygen. A continual flame can be covered and hidden but not smothered or quenched.
part2
Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.
Daylight
Level bard 3, cleric 3, druid 3, paladin 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
You touch an object when you cast this spell, causing the object to shed bright light in a 60-foot radius. This illumination increases the light level for an additional 60 feet
part 1
by one step (darkness becomes dim light, dim light becomes normal light, and normal light becomes bright light). Creatures that take penalties in bright light take them while within the 60-foot radius of this magical light. Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by such light.
If daylight is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a light-proof covering, the spell’s effects are blocked until the covering is removed.
Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.
part2
Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.
Sunburst
Level druid 8, sorcerer/wizard 8
Sunburst causes a globe of searing radiance to explode silently from a point you select. All creatures in the globe are blinded and take 6d6 points of damage. A creature to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural takes double damage. A successful Reflex save negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half.
An undead creature caught within the globe takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 25d6), or half damage if a Reflex save is successful. In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fails its save.
The ultraviolet light generated by the spell deals damage to fungi, mold, oozes, and slimes just as if they were undead creatures.
part 2
Sunburst dispels any darkness spells of lower than 9th level within its area.
Darkness
Level bard 2, cleric 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
This spell causes an object to radiate darkness out to a 20-foot radius.
part 1
This darkness causes the illumination level in the area to drop one step, from bright light to normal light, from normal light to dim light, or from dim light to darkness. This spell has no effect in an area that is already dark. Creatures with light vulnerability or sensitivity take no penalties in normal light.
part2
This spell does not stack with itself. Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Deeper Darkness
School evocation [darkness]; Level cleric 3
Duration 10 min./level (D)
This spell functions as darkness, except that objects radiate darkness in a 60-foot radius and
part 1
the light level is lowered by two steps. Bright light becomes dim light and normal light becomes darkness. Areas of dim light and darkness become supernaturally dark.
part 2
This spell does not stack with itself. Deeper darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
patr 1 cear this part up
what do you mean by by one step (darkness becomes dim light, dim light becomes normal light, and normal light becomes bright light)?
dose Daylight (spell) start at Bright light conditions and sources include direct sunlight and the daylight spell.
Normal light conditions and sources include clouded daylight?
do Darkness start at Dark environments and sources include cloudy, moonless lights, most caverns, and the darkness spell. or
Supernatural darkness is created by certain magics, including the deeper darkness spell. ?
and Deeper Darkness start at Supernatural darkness is created by certain magics, including the deeper darkness spell. ?
how do i work att that like outside or in a cavern with the light in all?
is Bright light the hight it can go i cant use a light spell to make it brighter?
part 2
i know this going to start a war but i need to know
you cant use one then one darkness spell at a time? (light vs dark spell war like player and DM like going exp some one using Continual Flame i dorp darkness spell then other light spell then i drop a other darkness spell) if i have to spell caster and the spells can we have that war or its one darkness spell?
can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level? so if i use Continual Flame (w2) and the light spell; one darkness will stop both or one?
sorry that a lot to read i have a lot of questions
porpentine wrote: Not a stupid question a stupid question is a question not asked
So another question.
What is the effect of a Heighten 6th level light spell vs a 3rd level deeper darkness spell.
@ Chaoskin:
Okay, rules as written:
light sources and light spells shed a certain light level in their primary radii, but alter existing light conditions in their greater areas. You cast light in a dark cavern, it sheds normal light in a 20' radius. In the secondary radius, it raises existing light levels by one step - so from 20' to 40' radius, the existing light rises from darkness to dim light. The primary radius does not increase the existing (environmental) light level.
Darkness spells work differently; they're disadvantaged. Darkness lowers the existing light level by one step in a 20' radius: deeper darkness lowers existing light by two levels in a 60' radius.
That's what the steps mean, and by the book there are only four listed in the Light and Vision section, though deeper darkness references a fifth, supernatural darkness, which blocks even darkvision (but not blindsight). There is no step greater than bright light by the book.
Personally, I think this could all be a bit neater. To be honest, I'm not sure I've ever played in a group which treats the secondary radii of light sources by the book - we just say 'normal 20', dim 20' ' and leave it at that.
I also don't much like light spells being more powerful than darkness spells, or that a darkness spell creates 20' of normal light, if you cast it in bright light; or that a deeper darkness spell is only going to create deeperer darkness if you cast it in dim or dark conditions... but if you want the rules as written, these are they.
@ Oliver: it's a 6th level light spell - so, it can be cast to dispel or counter a darkness spell of 6th level or lower. If it has been previously cast on an object and is brought into the area of a preexisting darkness spell, it only sheds light if it is of higher level than the preexisting darkness effect.
porpentine wrote:
Darkness spells work differently; they're disadvantaged. Darkness lowers the existing light level by one step in a 20' radius: deeper darkness lowers existing light by two levels in a 60' radius.
if you differently lets talk about it
porpentine wrote:
That's what the steps mean, and by the book there are only four listed in the Light and Vision section, though deeper darkness references a fifth, supernatural darkness, which blocks even darkvision (but not blindsight). There is no step greater than bright light by the book.
if we not use the book can there be higher then bright light?
porpentine wrote:
Personally, I think this could all be a bit neater. To be honest, I'm not sure I've ever played in a group which treats the secondary radii of light sources by the book - we just say 'normal 20', dim 20' ' and leave it at that.
normal 20', dim 20' for a human; its 'normal 40', dim 40' any one that has low-light vision. that what i was told
porpentine wrote:
I also don't much like light spells being more powerful than darkness spells, or that a darkness spell creates 20' of normal light, if you cast it in bright light; or that a deeper darkness spell is only going to create deeperer darkness if you cast it in dim or dark conditions... but if you want the rules as written, these are they.
ok lets talk about that too. i like the darkness spell being higher then light spells any way
Chaoskin, if you look around the first couple pages of the boards, you'll find a really long thread I posted titled Hide and Seek. This has a clarified system for everything that touches Stealth and invisibility, including light and darkness.
There's still no level above bright light in that system either, though. Easy to add if you're GMing, though - just use the dazzled condition as a basis for most creatures.
porpentine wrote:
Chaoskin, if you look around the first couple pages of the boards, you'll find a really long thread I posted titled Hide and Seek. This has a clarified system for everything that touches Stealth and invisibility, including light and darkness.
There's still no level above bright light in that system either, though. Easy to add if you're GMing, though - just use the dazzled condition as a basis for most creatures.
I was looking through your "hide and seek" post and still have questions.
A torch has the effect of raising darkness to normal light in the immediate 20 feet but that's 2 levels not one. Darkness to Dim to Normal. So while Light changes the condition 2 levels in the immediate 20 foot area and 1 level further out, Darkness only appears to lower the light 1 level. Is this because it would be too powerful if it was equal?
The eclipse spell feat says that it basically reverses the Light spell but that would only be true if torches cast dim light or if the eclipsed version of Light lowered it 2 levels in the immediate area and 1 level further out.
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