Caster Level Requirement to take Craft Item Feat


Rules Questions


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All the Craft Itme feats have a Caster Level prereq. So Brew Potion is Caster Level 3rd. So does that mean a Level 3 in a single caster class like Wiz3? Or can a Wiz2/Cle1 or a Wiz1/Cle1/Dru1 can take that feat?

Not sure i am reading the rule right and PCgen is going with the single class must be Level 3 to take it.

Searched the archives and did not see anything.

Thanks


Caster level is not Character level. In cases of single-class casters it is an equal number but caster level refers to the levels taken in a specific class. Some hybrid PrC allow you to add to multiple caster level simultaneously though.

There was some 3.x feat that allowed you to boost your effective caster level but I'm not sure how that worked in conjunction with craft feats


AWAD wrote:

All the Craft Itme feats have a Caster Level prereq. So Brew Potion is Caster Level 3rd. So does that mean a Level 3 in a single caster class like Wiz3? Or can a Wiz2/Cle1 or a Wiz1/Cle1/Dru1 can take that feat?

Not sure i am reading the rule right and PCgen is going with the single class must be Level 3 to take it.

Searched the archives and did not see anything.

Thanks

You can take a combination of caster levels to qualify for feat requirements.

Like in your example of Brew Potion, yes, you can take Wizard 2/Cleric 1, Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1, or any other combination of casters.

Please keep in mind though, since potions are a spell completion item, you can only brew potions up to what level spells you can cast. You can't even take a +5 DC modifier for spells you don't know.

So in your example of Wizard 2/Cleric 1, you can only brew 1st level Wizard or 1st level Cleric spells. Where if you took Wizard 3, you could brew 1st and 2nd Wizard spells.


Hobbun wrote:


You can take a combination of caster levels to qualify for feat requirements.

Like in your example of Brew Potion, yes, you can take Wizard 2/Cleric 1, Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1, or any other combination of casters.

Please keep in mind though, since potions are a spell completion item, you can only brew potions up to what level spells you can cast. You can't even take a +5 DC modifier for spells you don't know.

So in your example of Wizard 2/Cleric 1, you can only brew 1st level Wizard or 1st level Cleric spells. Where if you took Wizard 3, you could brew 1st and 2nd Wizard spells.

Incorrect

Quote:

Caster Level

A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.

So it's the number of levels in a specific class that determines caster level. Which determines feat access.

In the case of a level 3 wizard/level 2 cleric with brew potion the character would be able to craft arcane potions using the wizard spell list but not potions using the divine spell list (because he doesn't meet the caster level prerequisites on clerical potion making).

You would still be limited to spell completion items of a level that you could cast.

PrCs typically increase the caster level of the base class at set intervals.

Liberty's Edge

AWAD wrote:

All the Craft Itme feats have a Caster Level prereq. So Brew Potion is Caster Level 3rd. So does that mean a Level 3 in a single caster class like Wiz3? Or can a Wiz2/Cle1 or a Wiz1/Cle1/Dru1 can take that feat?

Caster Level (CL) is a statistic associated with the casting ability in each spellcasting class. A multi-classed spellcaster has multiple Caster Levels. In general, Caster Level does not transfer from class to class nor is it additive. A Wiz2/Clr1 has CL2 in the wizard class and CL1 in the Cleric class. He does not have CL3 in any class and does not qualify for Brew Potion.

Practiced Spellcaster in D&D 3.5 (Complete Arcane) and the Magical Knack trait in Pathfinder both provide the ability to augment CL in a limited quantity, up to the sum of a character's hit dice. A Wiz2/Clr1 with Magical Knack (Wizard) would have CL3 for wizard and CL1 for cleric. The character would qualify for Brew Potion via his wizard CL and could brew potions for both classes.

Hobbun wrote:

You can take a combination of caster levels to qualify for feat requirements.

Like in your example of Brew Potion, yes, you can take Wizard 2/Cleric 1, Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1, or any other combination of casters.

Hobbun is incorrect.


Hobbun wrote:


You can take a combination of caster levels to qualify for feat requirements.

Like in your example of Brew Potion, yes, you can take Wizard 2/Cleric 1, Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1, or any other combination of casters.

I disagree on this.

Your have a caster level for each spell casting class you have. So a wizard level 3 of course has caster level 3. But a wizard 2/cleric 1 only has caster level 2 for wizard spells, and caster level 1 for cleric spells. I haven't seen anything that suggest that you are allowed to combine these in regards to feat requirements.

You can boost your caster level with one of the Ioun stones (and other high level magic items), but if you got that one at level 2, it would break anything to allow Brew Potions ;-)


Lol Ok, no need for everyone to lambast me. :D

I stand corrected.

But yes, the more I think about it, that makes sense as when your CL is determined for spells (duration, damage, etc) it is off one class, even if two caster classes share the same spell.

Sorry!


I don't see anything in the rulebooks saying caster levels cannot stack when it comes to requirements for item creation feats. Further there are several sections in the rulebooks going out of it's way to specify that specific types of spellcaster levels do not stack in several regards, specifying those types of caster levels in the requirements (e.g. wizard, cleric, divine, arcane) but this issue was never addressed with item creation feats.

With regards to item creation feats, all it says is "caster level" in the requirement.

In my opinion, that at least opens the floor to the argument that caster levels could possibly stack for item creation feats. Repeat: "possibly." Unless someone from Paizo answers here, I think issue is going to be house-ruled and/or open to debate.

In my opinion it really doesn't mess with game balance to allow stacking of caster levels for item creation feats. The idea of a 3rd level wizard being able to brew a potion, and a Wizard 2/Cleric 1 being able to do so IMHO doesn't knock the balance off.

Grand Lodge

vuron wrote:
Quote:

Caster Level

A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.

So it's the number of levels in a specific class that determines caster level. Which determines feat access.

Agreed

vuron wrote:
In the case of a level 3 wizard/level 2 cleric with brew potion the character would be able to craft arcane potions using the wizard spell list but not potions using the divine spell list (because he doesn't meet the caster level prerequisites on clerical potion making).

The character can take and use Brew Potion because he has CL 3. I believe he can brew potions of clerical spells because he can supply the spell.

Whopper wrote:
I don't see anything in the rulebooks saying caster levels cannot stack when it comes to requirements for item creation feats. Further there are several sections in the rulebooks going out of it's way to specify that specific types of spellcaster levels do not stack in several regards, specifying those types of caster levels in the requirements (e.g. wizard, cleric, divine, arcane) but this issue was never addressed with item creation feats.

The rulebook specifies what your caster level is. Nothing in the rulebook allows you to use any other statistic to qualify for item creation feats. It doesn't need to be addressed specifically, because the general rule is clear and complete.


Whopper wrote:
I don't see anything in the rulebooks saying caster levels cannot stack when it comes to ...

I don't see anything that says casters cannot immediately and without a die-roll get all their spells back whenever they want, change spells on the fly, and raise their save DCs by 44.

Do not fall into the trap of 'cannot'. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. The game provides core rules and the way they work, certain issues and features allow side-stepping. Caster level is clearly defined in the book. There was a feat in 3.5 (which is perfectly backward compatable) which adds +4 to the Caster Level (up to the maximum of your hit dice!) in a single Casting Class. A Fighter 6/Sorcerer 1 with Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer) qualifies for Brew Potion.

A sorcerer 2/Cleric 2/Druid 2/Bard 2 does not. Unless he also has the Practiced Spellcaster feat. Then he does.


NONONONO!

Just kidding.

Actually, and you guys beat me to it, I did find posts from the Pathfinder creators in other threads saying that caster levels do not stack period unless specified. Otherwise assume they do not stack. The only cases where I've seen that they do stack are with prestige classes as mentioned above.

Nuts, I found that thread a few days ago, just a little after I posted above, I was going to include a link, but the wife was bugged with me for spending so much time on the computer and I got off. Now I don't remember where it was. The Paizo contributer, I believe it was Jim Jacobs mentioned the issue was somewhat nebulous the way it was written in the books and clarified.

So even being extremely liberal and trying to be a sneaky ambulance-chaser type and trying to stretch the rules without violating them becuase one could argue that rules must be followed literally, no you cannot stack levels unless there's something specifying you can. It's already been answered by the head honchos in other threads.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There is no feat in Pathfinder equivalent to 3.5's Practiced Spellcaster. However, there is the Magical Knack trait in the APG that provides a +2 to the caster level of a single class, not to exceed HD. So, a rogue 2/bard 1 with Magical Knack (Bard) would have a bard caster level of 3 and qualify for the Brew Potion feat. Also, a cleric 3/wizard 2 with Magical Knack (Cleric) would have a cleric caster level of 5 and a wizard caster level of 2; the character could take Craft Wand (because the cleric caster level is 5).

On a related note, once you have the feat, you can use it with any spell you know. The cleric/wizard in the example above can create wands of wizard spells without waiting until the wizard caster level reaches 5.

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