Please break it! Or: With enough eyes, all fail is obvious

[h0rnman]

I've been rolling this around in my head for some time now, and I want to see how bad this can get. I don't immediately see any enormous issues, but seeing some posts here make me think that there are some things I just can't predict. Assume, for a moment, that spell DCs are not calculated in the normal manner of 10 + Spell Level + Ability Mod, but are instead calculated as follows:

5 + 1/2 HD + Spell Level + Ability Mod
with caster level being
Number of spellcasting class levels + 1/2 other levels (or HD)

Now, with that assumption, show me your worst. Make me tremble in fear of the unthinkable brokenness of your single/multi class spellcasters that use this method. Show me that this is the worst idea I have ever had, ever.

I am not trying to inflame anyone here, or start a caster vs. non-caster war. I just want to know what the possible abuses or failures of this modification could be. All classes / levels / critters are welcome as examples.

Thank you in advance! :)

[TriOmegaZero]

At 1st level the DC for everything is 5 lower and at 20th it is 5 higher. That's all the difference I see.

[Bill Dunn]

I would expect the spellcaster number crunchers in the crowd to say that high level damaging spells (6th and higher level) are even weaker under that system than the current one (and they generally consider them very weak indeed). With increased save DCs for the higher level caster, that will only serve to make his enemy neutralization spells (dominates, charms, holds, etc) that much more powerful than spells that just whittle down the target's hit points.

They might, however, also concede that damaging spells will make more sense for the low-level casters since the enemy neutralizing spells are that much weaker with the lower save DCs.

[TriOmegaZero]

I forsee the low level casters using no-save spells and high level casters using SoD spells.

[Eric The Pipe]

My group uses a 10 + half caster level with that spell + casting ability mod, this works great 20th level casters have a higher dc for 1st level spells than 1st level casters and getting +1 caster level to a type of spell means a little more. it also matches how most other class dc abilities work.

yes we have playtested it, in the last 6 campaigns, again, it works great.

[Evil Lincoln]

Excellent thread title.

[h0rnman]

Evil Lincoln wrote:

Excellent thread title.

Thank you :)

Eric The Pipe wrote:

My group uses a 10 + half caster level with that spell + casting ability mod, this works great 20th level casters have a higher dc for 1st level spells than 1st level casters and getting +1 caster level to a type of spell means a little more. it also matches how most other class dc abilities work.

yes we have playtested it, in the last 6 campaigns, again, it works great.

Also, thank you for the feedback on this.

The higher saves for low level spells is more or less what I was after, along with some way for melee focused characters to have a few caster levels that actually amount to something, and I am glad that it has not been proven broken. I guess my ultimate concern is that there is some unforeseen Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Fighter/Sorcerer/Oracle/Bard, etc., combo that would absolutely break this using the 1/2 total HD portion of the calculation.