I know that when an extra-planar outsider is killed on the material plane it is sent back to its home plane. I haven't been able to find anything that says exactly what state the outsider is in when it reappears on its home plane though. Is it unconscious? How many hit points does it start with? If it is unconscious, how long would it generally take to wake up? If it had status conditions when it died such as ability damage or petrification, will those be healed?
In case you're wondering, I'm asking this because I'm designing an item involving the eidolon (of course) and I'm trying to figure out if being sent home due to 'death' will affect how the item would work.
Eidolons do not exist as the Eidolon when they aren't summoned onto the material plane. They are aspects of (un-named) extraplanar entities. The Summoner never calls the actual entity, only some spiritual fragment of it. For this reason, it's impossible to interact with an Eidolon outside of the Summoner/Eidolon bond. They can't be summoned with gate, for example, which is good because there's no provision for permanent death of an Eidolon (gate is a Calling spell, which means anything it summons truly dies).
When something is summoned it generally shows up normal.
Think of it kind of like the copy/paste feature of your computer. You have a permanent something (the actual creature) that you can't really do anything to but when you copy and paste the information (ahem, creature) into another program (say the prime material plane) it can be altered and corrupted. However even though the copy is corrupted or destroyed the original is still fine with nothing having happened to it -- except in the case of summoning spells the original is also aware of what happened to the copy.
EDIT: Please note this isn't the actual way that it happens in game -- just a sample means of understanding what's going on when something is summoned.
When something is summoned it generally shows up normal.
Think of it kind of like the copy/paste feature of your computer. You have a permanent something (the actual creature) that you can't really do anything to but when you copy and paste the information (ahem, creature) into another program (say the prime material plane) it can be altered and corrupted. However even though the copy is corrupted or destroyed the original is still fine with nothing having happened to it -- except in the case of summoning spells the original is also aware of what happened to the copy.
Not quite.
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
You're summoning the specific creature (or object). It ceases to exist in its original location and, if killed while summoned, takes a full day to "re-form" in its original location.
Yeah see my above edit.
The thing for outsiders is how they got to the prime material plane:
If they are summoned then they are good to go -- the worse that happens is they lose the time they are summoned and a day if "killed"
However if they are called/gated/plane shifted or come over some other way then they are in real trouble -- death is a real thing for them then and its very difficult to bring an outsider back to life (in general).
I'm thinking I'm going to give him that ability as a high level perk. Something to help him out should the worst befall him.
You know an embedded Ioun stone that gives regen is almost as good. It won't get you back up in the fight, but it will keep you from dying from HP damage.
You know an embedded Ioun stone that gives regen is almost as good. It won't get you back up in the fight, but it will keep you from dying from HP damage.He's got enough toys with all the at-will SLAs, I don't think he needs one to make him unkillable. :)
Well it's one way of going about the "get back up" without going for the native outsider thing (though that is a great option too).
I actually encourage the use of the Ioun Stone since it helps avoid TPK's and the mess of raising the dead without any GM fiat and it doesn't make it *impossible* to kill you since death magics and the like still work. Also even though it stops you from dying by going too deep in the negatives that doesn't mean you aren't unconscious -- which can be just as bad if the rest of the party drops too since then you are at the mercies (or lack thereof) of your enemies.
Eidolons do not exist as the Eidolon when they aren't summoned onto the material plane. They are aspects of (un-named) extraplanar entities. The Summoner never calls the actual entity, only some spiritual fragment of it. For this reason, it's impossible to interact with an Eidolon outside of the Summoner/Eidolon bond. They can't be summoned with gate, for example, which is good because there's no provision for permanent death of an Eidolon (gate is a Calling spell, which means anything it summons truly dies).
Mind if I ask where are you getting this from? I can't find any of this in the summoner class description. If this is the official way that the eidolon works it will certainly change how the item that I was thinking of making works.
When something is summoned it generally shows up normal.
Think of it kind of like the copy/paste feature of your computer. You have a permanent something (the actual creature) that you can't really do anything to but when you copy and paste the information (ahem, creature) into another program (say the prime material plane) it can be altered and corrupted. However even though the copy is corrupted or destroyed the original is still fine with nothing having happened to it -- except in the case of summoning spells the original is also aware of what happened to the copy.
EDIT: Please note this isn't the actual way that it happens in game -- just a sample means of understanding what's going on when something is summoned.
Ah thanks, that clears things up a bit. I guess then I just have to figure out whether or not the eidolon is the type where just a part or copy of a larger mysterious creature is summoned or if he actually disappears on his home plane while he's been summoned (and then takes a day to reform).
Though, if he takes a day to reform, then the 'Summon Eidolon' spell wouldn't work when the eidolon has been sent back due to death....bah, now I know why people are annoyed by all the exceptions that the eidolon has.
Mind if I ask where are you getting this from? I can't find any of this in the summoner class description. If this is the official way that the eidolon works it will certainly change how the item that I was thinking of making works.
Ah, but it is in the Summoner class description:
Eidolon: A summoner begins play with the ability to summon to his side a powerful outsider called an eidolon. The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature.
You never summon the creature. You summon an aspect of the creature.
Mind if I ask where are you getting this from? I can't find any of this in the summoner class description. If this is the official way that the eidolon works it will certainly change how the item that I was thinking of making works.Ah, but it is in the Summoner class description:
Eidolon: A summoner begins play with the ability to summon to his side a powerful outsider called an eidolon. The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature.You never summon the creature. You summon an aspect of the creature.
Ahh, there it is. Thanks, I was thinking that there would be a paragraph on it or something, that's why I missed it.
Hmmm, I suppose if that is the case I might want to avoid items which involve allowing the summoner to contact his eidolon when it isn't summoned or anything else that involves actions that the eidolon takes when it isn't summoned. It might lead to weird questions.
Yeah, for something with implications as broad as it has, they spend basically no time on it. Eidolons are unlike any other Outsiders except, perhaps, Deities, in that generally only Deities can manifest in multiple places at once or manifest Aspects. There's all sorts of things that one little phrase leads to: my aforementioned gate conclusion, the possibility of two different Summoners having an Eidolon that springs from the same entity, etc etc.
Yeah, for something with implications as broad as it has, they spend basically no time on it. Eidolons are unlike any other Outsiders except, perhaps, Deities, in that generally only Deities can manifest in multiple places at once or manifest Aspects. There's all sorts of things that one little phrase leads to: my aforementioned gate conclusion, the possibility of two different Summoners having an Eidolon that springs from the same entity, etc etc.
Yea, and you have to wonder just how powerful an eidolon really is if a level 20 summoner is still only summoning an 'aspect' of it, lol.