Running Jump

[Robert Brambley]

The Acrobatics skill indicates that the DC to jump are higher if one does "not have at least 10 feet for a running start"

Does "RUNNING START" mean literally using the "RUN" action? (which carries with it the restrictions of "straight line" and leaving you "dex-less"

Or is it a non-literal expression; and should just be assumed that as long as you move 10 ft, you're assumed to gain the benefit of a 'running jump.' via say a double move action.

Robert

[Tom Baumbach]

I suppose a case can be made for either, but I've always played that at least 10 feet of movement prior to the jump counts as a running start.

[Mr. Horyd]

This has been interpreted quite liberally in my games, as 10 ft. plus an average jump check is still going to be less than a single move action for much of a character's career. I've seen people get away with running 5 ft. backward to build momentum, then running 5 ft. forward again to their starting square to gain the 10 ft. of movement without anyone batting an eye.

Difficult terrain and obstacles still effectively reduce speed to a walk, making a running jump impossible unless you have Freedom of Movement or some similar means of bypassing it.

Only in-text support I've found is in the first paragraph under Tactical Movement, which reads "Characters generally don't walk during combat, for obvious reasons—they hustle or run instead. A character who moves his speed and takes some action is hustling for about half the round and doing something else the other half."

[dreddwulf1]

How high does the character end up going on a LONG jump? For example, if I jump 50 feet forward, how high does the character end up above the ground at the highest point? 1/2 the distance forward? 1/4? can you perform a 30 ft long jump in a cave that's only 6 feet from floor to ceiling?

[Robert Brambley]

dreddwulf1 wrote:

How high does the character end up going on a LONG jump? For example, if I jump 50 feet forward, how high does the character end up above the ground at the highest point? 1/2 the distance forward? 1/4? can you perform a 30 ft long jump in a cave that's only 6 feet from floor to ceiling?

Threadjack aside, earlier editions claimed half the distance long is the height.

Robert

[Robert Brambley]

Tom Baumbach wrote:

I suppose a case can be made for either, but I've always played that at least 10 feet of movement prior to the jump counts as a running start.

So there's no "official" answer that anyone is aware of (like a FAQ or something)....

Robert

[Stynkk]

"These DCs double if you do not have at least 10 feet of space to get a running start. "

While this is by no means official, I'll suggest that you do not have to use the "run" action. You just have to move 10ft before you attempt the acrobatics check.

I believe it is a non-literal expression. Note that it doesn't say "if you move at least 10ft with the Run Action or after declaring a Run Action". This is important because of the existence of a specific run action.

[Nightwish]

I would have to meet the OP in the middle. I don't think it means you literally have to use the Run action with the accompanying loss of Dex bonus to AC. But I think it does mean you have to be able to move in a straight line. You can't get much momentum going if you run five feet forward then turn right and run another five feet. By the RAW, the latter scenario would be legal, but not by RAI, I suspect. In my game, if a character tried the latter, I would give him a penalty to his jump check if he wasn't moving in a straight line, and the penalty would be adjusted by how much he had to alter his forward momentum (e.g. I might give him a -2 if he moves forward 5' then diagonally forward 5'; or -4 if he moves forward 5' then 90 degrees right 5'; or -8 if he moves 5' forward then backward or diagonally backward 5').

[dreddwulf1]

Robert Brambley wrote:

dreddwulf1 wrote:

How high does the character end up going on a LONG jump? For example, if I jump 50 feet forward, how high does the character end up above the ground at the highest point? 1/2 the distance forward? 1/4? can you perform a 30 ft long jump in a cave that's only 6 feet from floor to ceiling?

Threadjack aside, earlier editions claimed half the distance long is the height.

Robert

Earlier Editions? I realize Pathfinder was built on D&D 3.5, but it isn't 3.5, so I can't really use that. Besides, my GM is married to the idea that id it's not in the Pathfinder corebook, it doesn't exist. Is there anything written in Pathfinder about this?

Earlier editions (D&D 3.5) makes the height 1/4 long jump distance. Thanks for the input, though.

[Nightwish]

dreddwulf1 wrote:

Earlier Editions? I realize Pathfinder was built on D&D 3.5, but it isn't 3.5, so I can't really use that. Besides, my GM is married to the idea that id it's not in the Pathfinder corebook, it doesn't exist. Is there anything written in Pathfinder about this?

Two words: backwards compatability. That's something the Pathfinder devs have stressed from the very beginning. Among other things, that phrase means that 3.5 resources are still valid where they aren't explicitly contradicted by Pathfinder rules or where the Pathfinder rules are unclear.

[dreddwulf1]

Take that as a no, then. I will suggest the similarities to my GM, though. Hopefully he sees it the way you do.

[Tanis]

To work out how high you jump, consult the high jump table.

Say you move 10' then roll a 20 for your Acrobatics check. You'd jump 20' long and 5' high.

[Robert Brambley]

dreddwulf1 wrote:

Earlier editions (D&D 3.5) makes the height 1/4 long jump distance. Thanks for the input, though.

My mistake - 1/4 is what I meant to state. That is per 3rd edition which Pathfinder if based off of.

I see no reason to overturn that baseline.

Robert

[Robert Brambley]

Tanis wrote:

To work out how high you jump, consult the high jump table.

Say you move 10' then roll a 20 for your Acrobatics check. You'd jump 20' long and 5' high.

Or you could just divide the distance by 4 :-)

Robert

[Robert Brambley]

Nightwish wrote:

I would have to meet the OP in the middle. I don't think it means you literally have to use the Run action with the accompanying loss of Dex bonus to AC. But I think it does mean you have to be able to move in a straight line. You can't get much momentum going if you run five feet forward then turn right and run another five feet. By the RAW, the latter scenario would be legal, but not by RAI, I suspect. In my game, if a character tried the latter, I would give him a penalty to his jump check if he wasn't moving in a straight line, and the penalty would be adjusted by how much he had to alter his forward momentum (e.g. I might give him a -2 if he moves forward 5' then diagonally forward 5'; or -4 if he moves forward 5' then 90 degrees right 5'; or -8 if he moves 5' forward then backward or diagonally backward 5').

That's fair.

Where I break believability in the whole thing is the "running start" by not using the "run action".

By not requiring the "run action" you theoretically allow a single move action to gain the momentum to clear a great distance - when in reality that's only 1/4 the speed in which you move while taking "run action".

Even using the argument that one is "hustling" doesn't hold water when you consider how far a true "running jump" can do by a hurried walk. But to truly clear great distance, you really need a straight full out run to clear great distances.

A single move action is the equivalent of meadering. In a straight line or not - you're never going to see some risk attempt to leap across a pit/chasm/rooftop at the risk of grave injury by meandering towards the edge vs the concept of move 4 times your speed for that leap.

This is why I always took "running start" literally as in game rules mechanic of "run action" but that came to a head last week while GMing a Society game for a player I hadn't really been around much had never interpreted it that way, and wound up getting screwed by my literal translation that I had always enforced.

Robert