Shadar Kai Demon Lord or God?

[W E Ray]

Can someone confirm that no one has published a Demon Lord or God of the Shadar Kai?

I've got an idea for an Arch Devil to make a deal with the Shadar Kai race to become their Race's Patron and get them out of their curse. They can stay on the Prime Material (where they love cuz they're Fey) and will still have to travel to and from the Shadow (cuz the curse was at least partially irrevocable) but they can be this Arch Devil's minions on the Prime (with their "home-base" on the Shadow) corrupting souls to Hell for their Patron.

It gives the Arch Devil a non-outsider race to use as soul-harvesters on the Prime and the Shadar-Kai make an excellent choice of "monster" for this role.

EVERYTHING fits perfectly.

That is, assuming I haven't missed something about the Shadar Kai already having a Patron god or Demon Lord.

[David Fryer]

In have read all the 3.5 material on the Shadar-Kai and I can't find anything that discusses a diety or archdevil for them. In 4th Edition they are followers of the Raven Queen.

[BenS]

Check out Dragon #322. I believe Erebus (Shadow Plane deity originally from Greek pantheon) might be the de facto Shadar-Kai god. That's certainly what I've done w/ the 2 anyway.

The article is "Lord of Darkness: Erebus, the Void Between the Stars". It's a great issue, too.

[W E Ray]

Thanks Ben!

Dragon 322 says that the shadar-kai attempted "to utilize Erebus' power, but were ensnared by the specifics of their bargain." They are now afflicted by the "shadow curse" and "are invariably drawn into the the Plane of Shadow were Erebus has taken the entire race as his favored slaves." It adds that "the entire race hates the ancient god of shadows for tricking them." (Thanks Mairkurion!!!)

Now I gotta tinker a bit in my Homebrew Cosmology and see what comes out.

[James Jacobs]

I have no information or insight into shadar-kai and/or demons as they exist in 4th edition, so the following response is limited to the 3rd edition incarnation.

Shadar-kai are from the plane of shadow; that's not where demons are from. It's actually further away from the Abyss than the Material Plane is in many ways.

Also, shadar-kai are neutral evil—demons are chaotic evil. I know that you can have a shadar-kai of a different alignment, but that doesn't matter—the race itself is neutral evil, which means that the majority of shadar-kai are neutral, not chaotic.

Daemons (AKA yugoloths) are a better choice for shadar-kai to worship if you want them to be associated with a fiendish race. And frankly, since they're fey and from the plane of shadow, I think that it'd be even better if they just worshiped evil nature deities or deities from the plane of shadow. If you were to use them in Golarion, I'd say that Zon-Kuthon would make a perfect deity for them, or if not that, have them worship a demigod pantheon of kytons.

But they've never had a demon lord associated with them because they're not chaotic evil and because they're not really associated with the Abyss in any way.

[Mairkurion {tm}]

Wow! When W E Ray wants to know something, he employs a comprehensive strategy! (And you're certainly welcome!)

[W E Ray]

You know, I was thinking about Jacobs' post and despite having already disqualified the race's NE alignment (I'm a CE v LE guy, with no respect for NE), I wanted to go back and see if there could be another option other than the Shadar Kai.

I came up with Pathfinder's version of the Kyton.

A quick perusal of the original MM, FF & MMII, plus the 2E MC and Annuals indicates that the Chain Devil is new to the d20 Age. I'll check the Dragon Mag Forum to see if there's info I don't have.

But in Pathfinder's version they're not Devils so I don't have too much to worry over. I think it's easy for a Homebrew designer to say that means they're not Baatezu. A perfect distinction for my purposes.

I can make my Arch Devil become the patron of Kytons and, meanwhile, have him "steal" lots of Shadar Kai to his worship, even if he doesn't become their overall Patron.

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And with Christmas right around the corner I'm actually gonna have some time off of work to work out some of these things!

Merry Christmas

[Eduardo Godinez]

James Jacobs wrote:

If you were to use them in Golarion, I'd say that Zon-Kuthon would make a perfect deity for them, or if not that, have them worship a demigod pantheon of kytons.

That's what instanly jumped to mind when I read the thread title. And since I plan to make Golarion a part of the greater multiverse IMC, the Golarion goods could be worshipped in other worlds, though not too spread out since it's a relatively new Prime World ;). Perhaps the shadar-kai were ensnared in a similar way the inhabitants of Nidal found themselves as The Midnight Lord's worshippers/pawns (or the other way around)?

W E Ray wrote:

But in Pathfinder's version they're not Devils so I don't have too much to worry over. I think it's easy for a Homebrew designer to say that means they're not Baatezu. A perfect distinction for my purposes.

The Kyton came from Planescape material (Planes of Law I think), so they're not new to 3.x. Also they've never been baatezu, just a separate race of baatorians who get lumped with them for convenience's sake, so no houseruling/homebrewing necessary ;)

[W E Ray]

Ah, cool, I didn't know that about Kytons -- I never got the Planes of Law book.

Alas, I can't use Zon Kuthon because the point is using my Homebrew guy to fill the roll (not because I don't like Zon Kuthon).