I have a question concerning Blinded/Blindsight/Blindsense. According to the wording, it sounds as if the Blinded condition still affects a character and that Blindsight/Blindsense only alleviates some of the detriments of the condition. Look at the following:
BLINDED: The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty
to Armor Class, loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and
takes a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based
skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All
checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading
and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail.
All opponents are considered to have total concealment
(50% miss chance) against the blinded character. Blind
creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to
move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check
fall prone. Characters who remain blinded for a long time
grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome
some of them.
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BLINDSIGHT: Some creatures possess blindsight, the extraordinary
ability to use a nonvisual sense (or a combination of senses)
to operate effectively without vision. Such senses may
include sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent, keen hearing,
or echolocation. This makes invisibility and concealment
(even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature (though it
still can’t see ethereal creatures). This ability operates out to
a range specified in the creature description.
• Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or
visual contrast. A creature cannot read with blindsight.
• Blindsight does not subject a creature to gaze attacks
(even though darkvision does).
• Blinding attacks do not penalize creatures that use
blindsight.
• Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on
hearing.
• Blindsight works underwater but not in a vacuum.
• Blindsight negates displacement and blur effects.
BLINDSENSE Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser
ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see,
but without the precision of blindsight. The creature
with blindsense usually does not need to make Perception
checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its
blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to
that creature. Any opponent that cannot be seen has
total concealment (50% miss chance) against a creature
with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has
the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have
concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a
creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is
still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against
attacks from creatures it cannot see.
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My problem is this --- I have a player who has been blinded. However, he has Blindsense out to a range of 50 ft. According to Blindsense, if he has line of sight to the enemies, he can pinpoint where they are. He still suffers 50% miss chance, no Dex. bonus to AC, and half speed.
First, does he still suffer the -4 penalty to Strength/Dexterity skills? I assume yes, as it's a part of the movement penalty.
Second, does he still suffer the -2 AC for being blinded? It doesn't state it, even though the no Dex. bonus applies, which is odd.
Now, what about Blindsight? According to the entry, it only says blindsight allows one to ignore concealment and invisibility. Now I know there're creatures with regular sight and blindsight. So, if a creature with both is blinded, does he suffer the blinded condition and have the blindsight effects overlap? Or is blindsight the exact equivalent of actual sight except for the effects described?
It's a confusing matter. Also, do blinded creatures still receive AoO or no? I assume not?
Thanks!
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Now, what about Blindsight? According to the entry, it only says blindsight allows one to ignore concealment and invisibility. Now I know there're creatures with regular sight and blindsight. So, if a creature with both is blinded, does he suffer the blinded condition and have the blindsight effects overlap? Or is blindsight the exact equivalent of actual sight except for the effects described?
The second.
Also, do blinded creatures still receive AoO or no?
No, you can't make an attack of opportunity against a creature that has total concealment from you.
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Unfortunately I agree with Starglim. Every description of blindsense I've ever seen describes it as hyper-awesome perceptions bringing in the combination of sight, sound, smell and touch.
I don't recall blindsight, but I believe it was basically an extension of that.
This means that diminishing any sense diminishes/cancels blindsense. How much would vary based on the creature since each goes about it differently.
Anywho, I always thought that blindsense/sight was a lame excuse for getting out of defining a perception DC and making the creature have to hit it. If you really need a creature with echolocation just says "sees with echolocation just as well as you do with sight" and be done with it, don't make up a new ability. At least that way you know that you counter it with silence rather than blindness/deafness. </rant>
Ok, so far I think I got it.
Blindsight works like normal sight, with exceptions noted in its entry. Anything outside the range of blindsight and a creature is considered blinded (as in they need to make a Perception check for someone outside their range).
As for Blindsense, you still suffer ALL the blinded condition penalties with the exception that you can sense other creatures location without Perception checks?
BlindSIGHT makes being blinded irrelevant.
operate effectively : if you are at ac penalties and half movement you are not being effective.
This makes invisibility and concealment(even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature: taking ac penalties and having movement would be quite relevant to the creature.
• Blinding attacks do not penalize creatures that use blindsight.: obtaining the penalties from the blinded condition would be penalizing the character for being blinded
-So blindsight may as well be 20 20 vision that can't be screwed with and makes stealth pointless around you.
First, does he still suffer the -4 penalty to Strength/Dexterity skills? I assume yes, as it's a part of the movement penalty.
Yes
Second, does he still suffer the -2 AC for being blinded? It doesn't state it, even though the no Dex. bonus applies, which is odd.
Yes. Its not that odd. His senses allow him to know that there is someone in the square next to him. It doesn't tell him exactly where the person is holding their dagger or swinging their staff. Something with blindSIGHT would have echolocation so good and precise that they may as well be seeing the metal in the thief's hand.
Second, does he still suffer the -2 AC for being blinded? It doesn't state it, even though the no Dex. bonus applies, which is odd.
Yes. Its not that odd. His senses allow him to know that there is someone in the square next to him. It doesn't tell him exactly where the person is holding their dagger or swinging their staff. Something with blindSIGHT would have echolocation so good and precise that they may as well be seeing the metal in the thief's hand.
Ok got it. What I meant by it being odd was, for Blindsense, they mention you don't get Dexterity bonus to AC and movement penalties, but don't mention whether you suffer the -2 AC for being blinded or not. This led me to believe if you have Blindsense, you don't suffer the -2 to AC but still have no Dex. bonus to AC.