Most bombs use the alchemist's bomb damage for damage, however it appears to me that this bomb just does a flat 6d6 damage (per Incendiary Cloud)?
Does the cloud also drift as per an Incendiary Cloud? If so, can you also concentrate to make the cloud drift up to 60' in a round?
Since it states "...duplicate the effects of Incendiary Cloud instead of Fog Cloud...", I believe that only the visibility portion of Fog Cloud was ment to be replaced. So, if I have read this correctly, this bomb:
- causes 6d6 fire damage
- impairs sight as a fog cloud
- does not drift
Would this be correct?
Would this be correct?
I do believe it is meant to duplicate the effect of incendiary cloud as per smoke bomb and inferno bomb descriptions.
Remember that this power first becomes available at 16th level.
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Most bombs use the alchemist's bomb damage for damage, however it appears to me that this bomb just does a flat 6d6 damage (per Incendiary Cloud)?
Does the cloud also drift as per an Incendiary Cloud? If so, can you also concentrate to make the cloud drift up to 60' in a round?
Since it states "...duplicate the effects of Incendiary Cloud instead of Fog Cloud...", I believe that only the visibility portion of Fog Cloud was ment to be replaced. So, if I have read this correctly, this bomb:
- causes 6d6 fire damage
- impairs sight as a fog cloud
- does not driftWould this be correct?
I'm not sure about the drifting, but I would follow your interpretation. However, remember that neither smoke bomb nor inferno bomb replaces the original bomb's damage. Smoke bomb says "can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates." So it still does your normal damage in addition to the smoke/incendiary effect.
So, when you get it at 16th lvl you'd be bombing for 8d6+int splashing 5' for 8+1nt and your 25' diameter cloud would be dealing 6d6 damage for 16 rounds after.
I'm not sure about the drifting, but I would follow your interpretation. However, remember that neither smoke bomb nor inferno bomb replaces the original bomb's damage. Smoke bomb says "can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates." So it still does your normal damage in addition to the smoke/incendiary effect.
So, when you get it at 16th lvl you'd be bombing for 8d6+int splashing 5' for 8+1nt and your 25' diameter cloud would be dealing 6d6 damage for 16 rounds after.
Thanks for that note. I thought the spell effects replaced the bomb's damage.
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A more interesting question is whether having 4 of these incendiary bombs overlapping makes for an area that deals 24d6/ round (actually 6d6 four times which is quite different from a Energy Resistance POV). I assume it deals damage immediately... Hmm, this seems a good bit better than I thought. I have to reassess this bomb.
Regardless, another win for the smoker alchemists.
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So, when you get it at 16th lvl you'd be bombing for 8d6+int splashing 5' for 8+1nt and your 25' diameter cloud would be dealing 6d6 damage for 16 rounds after.
In this example I'm uncertain if you are indicating if the 6d6 damage occurs on the first round when the target also takes the bomb damage or after. In reading the Inferno Bomb and Smoke Bomb it looks like their effects are instataneous.
1)
On the first round when the bomb is thrown, the direct hit target suffers both the bomb damage (8d6+int) plus the incendiary cloud damage (6d6)?
2)
I noticed a Smoke Bomb allows the alchemist to choose whether the smoke is released. Does the same apply for an Inferno Bomb and a Poison Bomb?
2)
I noticed a Smoke Bomb allows the alchemist to choose whether the smoke is released. Does the same apply for an Inferno Bomb and a Poison Bomb?
I don't understand the question; nothing is compelling you to add any of the discoveries marked with a star (as far as I know). Otherwise, you'd be in trouble if you took both Inferno Bomb and Poison Bomb (since you'd be required to use both even though it's impossible to use more than one).
A smoke bomb without the smoke (or an inferno bomb without the inferno, or a poison bomb without the poison) is just a "vanilla" bomb.
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So, when you get it at 16th lvl you'd be bombing for 8d6+int splashing 5' for 8+1nt and your 25' diameter cloud would be dealing 6d6 damage for 16 rounds after.In this example I'm uncertain if you are indicating if the 6d6 damage occurs on the first round when the target also takes the bomb damage or after. In reading the Inferno Bomb and Smoke Bomb it looks like their effects are instataneous.
1)
On the first round when the bomb is thrown, the direct hit target suffers both the bomb damage (8d6+int) plus the incendiary cloud damage (6d6)?
"In addition, the white-hot embers within the cloud deal 6d6 points of fire damage to everything within the cloud on your turn each round. All targets can make Reflex saves each round to take half damage."
Depends on how you interpret it but I would say yes, they take the damage immediately.2)
I noticed a Smoke Bomb allows the alchemist to choose whether the smoke is released. Does the same apply for an Inferno Bomb and a Poison Bomb?
As Hogarth said you choose which discovery you apply to each bomb. If you don't want the inferno don't apply it. The "You can choose to..." is redundant and essentially flavor text.
Umm, not wanting to rain on anyones parade but the text:
When the alchemist creates a bomb, he
can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when
it detonates. The cloud functions as fog cloud, filling an
area equal to twice the bomb’s splash radius for 1 round
per level.
does not indicate that a Smoke Bomb deals any damage. The Alchemist can choose to have it create a cloud, and thats it.
Consequently you get a Stink Bomb that behaves like a Stinking Cloud and hasn't got any damage or an Inferno Bomb that behaves just like an Incendary Cloud.
Umm, not wanting to rain on anyones parade but the text:
When the alchemist creates a bomb, he
can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when
it detonates. The cloud functions as fog cloud, filling an
area equal to twice the bomb’s splash radius for 1 round
per level.does not indicate that a Smoke Bomb deals any damage. The Alchemist can choose to have it create a cloud, and thats it.
Consequently you get a Stink Bomb that behaves like a Stinking Cloud and hasn't got any damage or an Inferno Bomb that behaves just like an Incendary Cloud.
Note that Explosive Bomb doesn't mention doing damage either, just splash damage and catching on fire.
Personally, unless a bomb discovery says "this does X instead of doing damage" (like Dispelling Bomb does), I assume all normal bomb rules still apply. Ask your GM, though.
2)
I noticed a Smoke Bomb allows the alchemist to choose whether the smoke is released. Does the same apply for an Inferno Bomb and a Poison Bomb?I don't understand the question; nothing is compelling you to add any of the discoveries marked with a star (as far as I know). Otherwise, you'd be in trouble if you took both Inferno Bomb and Poison Bomb (since you'd be required to use both even though it's impossible to use more than one).
A smoke bomb without the smoke (or an inferno bomb without the inferno, or a poison bomb without the poison) is just a "vanilla" bomb.
Whoops. A momentary slip of cognitive thought there. At the time I was posting it, I was thinking that alchemists prepare their bombs ahead of time. So I was thinking that he could grab a smoke bomb that was prepared earlier in the day, and then decide whether it causes only damage, or smoke and damage just before throwing it. Since bombs are created "on the fly", there is no answer needed for question #2 :)
Personally, unless a bomb discovery says "this does X instead of doing damage" (like Dispelling Bomb does), I assume all normal bomb rules still apply. Ask your GM, though.
I think this would be the RAW. I am starting to think now, that RAI might be different, especially when you look at the wording of other discoveries, such as Shock Bomb.
Shock Bomb
When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it inflict electricity damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from a shock bomb are dazzled for 1d4 rounds.
Smoke Bomb
When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates. The cloud functions as fog cloud, filling an area equal to twice the bomb’s splash radius for 1 round per level.
Shock bomb does not say "instead of fire damage" so it could arguably also add the shock damage to the fire damage. I think most would agree that the shock damage replaces the fire damage. Since the same wording is used for the smoke bomb, I suspect that the same may be true for it. (Oddly enough though, Poison Bomb and Inferno Bomb do not use this wording, and simply refers to the smoke they create. I think that this was an oversight in their wording).
I think an FAQ is really needed now on this. Is there an errata thread for the APG?
Shock bomb does not say "instead of fire damage" so it could arguably also add the shock damage to the fire damage.
Add how much damage? If the electricity damage doesn't replace the fire damage, then the amount of electricity damage would be undefined.
The wording is maybe a little ambiguous, but it's not bad compared to 90% of D&D rules. :-)
In an attempt to clarify these issues, I have added a post to the APG Errata thread:
Shock bomb does not say "instead of fire damage" so it could arguably also add the shock damage to the fire damage.Add how much damage? If the electricity damage doesn't replace the fire damage, then the amount of electricity damage would be undefined.
The wording is maybe a little ambiguous, but it's not bad compared to 90% of D&D rules. :-)
True, but given that there seems to be quite a bit of confusion with whether the effects of Smoke Bomb, Poison Bomb and Inferno Bomb are in addition to the fire damage, I thought I would focus on the "root cause" of this confusion, which I believe is the wording of "...he can choose to...". I certainly agree that no change is necessarily required for the damage replacement bombs for the reason you noted, but the 3 bombs I listed above could definitely benefit from additional clarification.
Note that Explosive Bomb doesn't mention doing damage either, just splash damage and catching on fire....Ask your GM...
This bomb doesn't have the sentence "can choose to have it...".
If you read these sentences in the Acid, Shock and whatnot bombs sections, you always have to add "instead of fire damage" or it would make no sense. So if this same sentence is used in the entry of the Smoke Bomb, wouldn't it be logical to also add "instead of fire damage"?
And I am the GM and this is only my version of RAW. But a clarification would be nice.
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It's an interesting question. In some bombs they make it quite clear:
When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it dispel magic effects instead of deal damage.
I really don't see anything about the phrase "Can choose to" that precludes it doing damage and the additional effect.
"When you get potatoes you can choose to load up with gravy." doesn't mean you lose out on potatoes.
"When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates. "
The bomb is the potatoes, the smoke is the gravy.
To be honest it's probably more reasonable if it is either or but that's not the impression I get when I read it.
As the text for smoke bomb has the same wording as for acid bomb, this would imply that if smoke deals additional fire damage then acid too deals additional fire damage.
As it is clearly intended that acid bombs only deal acid damage and not additional fire damage so too is it intended that smoke bombs do not deal fire damage.