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I just want to make absolutely sure of something having to do with a character build I'm working on - a 3rd level Sorcerer with the Aberrant Bloodline gains the Long Limbs (Ex) ability, which reads: "At 3rd level, your reach increases by 5 feet whenever you are making a melee touch attack. This ability does not otherwise increase your threatened area."
From an AoO threatened area perspective, I would guess this to mean that the character WOULD threaten 10 ft. away while 'holding a charge' with a melee touch spell, but would ONLY threaten the normal 5 ft. with all other attacks. Since the rule is that you threaten any space into which you can make a melee attack, I would think this to be the case. I had originally assumed he could only deliver touch spells at distance, but wouldn't threaten into those additional squares with said touch spells.
Any thoughts?
Your threatened area. Thought this meant that you did not cause yourself to be open for AoO by attacking with your melee touch attack. So if i reach out 10 feet with an attack, then this would not cause everything in adjacent squares to gain an AoO attack against me.
At least what i thought
AOO is for 'melee' attacks. A monk is considered armed, a mage holding a touch spell is not.
AOO is for 'melee' attacks. A monk is considered armed, a mage holding a touch spell is not.
Not exactly correct there.
PRD:
"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
also, if you read most touch attack spells. they are referenced as a melee touch attack.
Yes, you can use them in AoO's
EDIT: As to the original post, I agree. I think the way it is written means it ONLY applies to when you have a "magic charge" going. Though, I would definitely allow other noncombat uses for the mage in my own games.
AOO is for 'melee' attacks. A monk is considered armed, a mage holding a touch spell is not.Not exactly correct there.
PRD:
"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
also, if you read most touch attack spells. they are referenced as a melee touch attack.
Yes, you can use them in AoO's
EDIT: As to the original post, I agree. I think the way it is written means it ONLY applies to when you have a "magic charge" going. Though, I would definitely allow other noncombat uses for the mage in my own games.
There is actually another discussion going on (look for "produce flame" I think was the spell it was about if you search) where James has actually said making touch attacks with spells is a "special" case and not resolved like a weapon attack unless the spell specifically states it should be. Basically, using a "held charge" as an "armed" touch attack isn't a viable way of making an attack action and seems to be restricted to a standard action to make. As such you wouldn't be able to use it to make an AoO...
In reading through the thread Skylancer refers to, it seems that Produce Flame is a special case that's different from other touch spells.
That being said, I guess the main question I have is not whether certain spells threaten (as I'm led to believe that melee touch spells do, when held), but rather, whether the Long Limbs Sorcerer ability does or does not extend your threat range, and if so, under which circumstances.
The word "otherwise" in the Long Limbs description would indicate that it DOES extend your threat range while holding a charge, but not in regards to any other attack type.
However, if touch spells NEVER threaten for AoOs and can only be used as standard action attacks, then the Long Limbs ability in fact would not increase your threat range at all. But then, why would the word 'otherwise' be in the ability description?
In reading through the thread Skylancer refers to, it seems that Produce Flame is a special case that's different from other touch spells.
That being said, I guess the main question I have is not whether certain spells threaten (as I'm led to believe that melee touch spells do, when held), but rather, whether the Long Limbs Sorcerer ability does or does not extend your threat range, and if so, under which circumstances.
The word "otherwise" in the Long Limbs description would indicate that it DOES extend your threat range while holding a charge, but not in regards to any other attack type.
However, if touch spells NEVER threaten for AoOs and can only be used as standard action attacks, then the Long Limbs ability in fact would not increase your threat range at all. But then, why would the word 'otherwise' be in the ability description?
No the original point of the post was for Produce Flame, BUT then James went on to elaborate on spells and how they interact with combat. Like you can't use produce flame to make multiple attacks per round because it is a spell and that unless spells state that they are weapon like, they are in their own "category" I guess you'd say. That is how they balanced the touch/held charge spells in their consideration for PFRPG.
Basically from what he said, in order to threaten with a held charge, you'd need to perform an unarmed strike AoO (which would provoke as it isn't the touch attack, unless you had the feat) and deal damage with it to release the charge.
As for the long limbs, they only take effect when you are attacking with a melee touch attack. You wouldn't be threatening the extra distance as that is a reactive attack which wouldn't happen unless you threatened the area normally.
What it comes down to is, you don't have reach to make the attack in the first place. You can't use the condition to validate itself.
Ok, I see what you're saying now. That makes sense. I still think the character concept is a good build and I'm going to go ahead with it, I just needed clarification on that.
So the Long Limbs ability merely allows you to deliver a touch spell (melee touch attack) as a standard action on your turn, and that's it. No threatened area increase whatsoever. The ability is cool in my book nonetheless. Thanks guys.