Pounce attacks while staggered? Is that supposed to be possible?

[Matrixryu]

Alright, according to the rules for charging, you can still do a charge if you're limited to just a standard action during your turn. It just means that you can only charge half your normal distance. Essentially, this rule allows you to do a charge while staggered.

So, that brings up this next question. In the description of pounce, it says that you can make a full attack after a charge. It doesn't say that you have to have spent a full round action on the charge, it just says that you have to make a charge. So....if a creature with pounce is staggered, can it still make full round attacks at the end of a standard action charge? When read literally it sounds like that's what the rules are saying, but I'm not sure if that's what the real intent was.

Also, you can't say that a full round attack always requires a full round action, because there are characters such as mobile fighters who gain the ability to do a full round attack with a standard action. So, techically this might just be a very conditional way for a creature with pounce to get a full round attack off with just a standard action.

Naturally, I have an eidolon who has diehard and pounce, so I'm asking this to see if I'll be able to have him do half distance pounce attacks even when he's in the negatives ;)

[Cold Napalm]

There use to be a distinction between a charge (full round action) and a partial charge (a standard action). Pounce worked with a charge but not a partial charge. However that distinction seems to have disapeared from PF...but I do still keep ot in my games and that is how I would rule it until the FAQ shows up.

[Matrixryu]

Cold Napalm wrote:

There use to be a distinction between a charge (full round action) and a partial charge (a standard action). Pounce worked with a charge but not a partial charge. However that distinction seems to have disapeared from PF...but I do still keep ot in my games and that is how I would rule it until the FAQ shows up.

Oh interesting, I didn't know that there used to be a distinction between the two. I wonder if Paizo just removed the term 'partial charge' for simplicity?

[Howie23]

Matrixryu wrote:

Cold Napalm wrote:

There use to be a distinction between a charge (full round action) and a partial charge (a standard action). Pounce worked with a charge but not a partial charge. However that distinction seems to have disapeared from PF...but I do still keep ot in my games and that is how I would rule it until the FAQ shows up.

Oh interesting, I didn't know that there used to be a distinction between the two. I wonder if Paizo just removed the term 'partial charge' for simplicity?

Partial charge was 3.0 only. Partial charge was removed in 3.5. Paizo didn't remove it; paizo built on the 3.5 SRD, and the action had been gone already.

[Matrixryu]

Howie23 wrote:

Partial charge was 3.0 only. Partial charge was removed in 3.5. Paizo didn't remove it; paizo built on the 3.5 SRD, and the action had been gone already.

Ah, so I guess this technically would be possible in 3.5 as well. I guess then this is a valid tactic unless Paizo decides to do some erratas and additional changes to the 3.5 SRD.

So, It is sounding like my Eidolon will have a way of doing some extra damage via pounces when he's in negative health right up until the moment that he bleeds out and dies...only to be resummoned at half health via 'Summon Eidolon' the next round XD

He might start getting very upset about being ordered to use this tactic though, haha.

[james maissen]

Matrixryu wrote:

In the description of pounce, it says that you can make a full attack after a charge. It doesn't say that you have to have spent a full round action on the charge, it just says that you have to make a charge. So....if a creature with pounce is staggered, can it still make full round attacks at the end of a standard action charge? When read literally it sounds like that's what the rules are saying, but I'm not sure if that's what the real intent was.

This question is analogous to can a creature pounce in a surprise round.

My take on this is that while it enables one to take a full attack action, one must also have a full round action available to do so.

This is NOT the normal reading that people have on this. Most people will allow a monster to get a full attack action in a surprise round via charging & pouncing.

Personally I don't see the ability as granting a way to make a full attack that one couldn't otherwise.

-James