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Too many years, too many editions, all was clear, but now the brain is mushy…
So, Pathfinder gurus: IN PATHFINDER, please clarify—
An animal, such as an eagle (as listed in the Bestiary), has two (2) +3 talon attacks and a +3 bite attack. What does he get as a standard attack, and what does he get as a full round attack?
Does he take penalties from the listed bonuses if using, say, the two talon attacks as if using two-weapon fighting? Are animals/monsters bound by the more-than-one-attack-must-be-counted-as-a-full-round-action rule?
I’ve been trying to read up on all this in the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary, but the relevant sections just aren’t coming together in a cohesive manner to give me a clear answer. *brains melt*
1) As a standard action he gets one attack (you choose) at normal attack bonus with 1.5 strength bonus.
2) No. The only exception is with humanoid creatures with natural attacks that wield a weapon *and* attack with natural weapons. Yes.
All good :)
1) As a standard action he gets one attack (you choose) at normal attack bonus with 1.5 strength bonus.
2) No. The only exception is with humanoid creatures with natural attacks that wield a weapon *and* attack with natural weapons. Yes.
All good :)
I want to agree with 1) but it was pointed out to me that in the new re-written rules that natural attacks denoted as "secondary" always take a -5 to hit. Go read the Natural Weapon rules (PFRPG pg 182) and then in the bestiary check the table for natural attacks (pg 302), your jaw will probably drop in disbelief as mine did as I just sat there going "it really doesn't make sense."
Basically if a creature makes a standard attack action, it will get 1 attack with any primary attack at full BAB or 1 secondary attack at (full BAB)-5.
If a creature does a full round attack they get what is listed in the melee attack section of the stat block (your example - 2xclaw +3 and bite +3). If a creature has a secondary attack you will notice it has that penalty of -5 (or -2 if they have multiattack feat) already figured out, PFRPG has made things a bit simpler in that respect. As long as all attacks are natural, two weapon fighting doesn't come into it. The only penalty would be if secondary natural attacks were involved (at the -5/-2) but the stat block takes that into account.
Special kinda: If a humanoid ish creature were using manufactured weapons and wanted to use it's BAB to make full attacks with the weapons (high BAB for multiple attacks or TWF for example), it wouldn't be able to use the natural attacks (like claws) associated with those limbs that have weapons held BUT all other natural attacks it is capable of making would be available. In such a case the creature is treated as TWFing (even if only 1 weapon is being used along with the natural attacks) and all the natural attacks take a -5 penalty and deal 1/2 strength damage (instead of full or 1.5) as if they were secondary natural attacks. The natural attacks are considered light 1h weapons and the penalty can be lowered by feats.
Creatures are bound by the full attack requirement to get all attacks (unless a special ability says otherwise).
Stuff changed, other stuff didn't. We all get it at some point ;)
Huh. You're right there Skylancer. m'bad :(
Still, now we know...