I saw it coming from the beginning, but I guess I should be blessed that some people play the game for the role playing and character development aspects and not ROLL playing.
Anyway, here's my party: level 5 paladin, level 4 barb (invulnerable rager alternate)/1 rogue(thug alternate), level 5 monk, and (here's the problem child) 3 wizard (transmuter)/2 rogue.
So, the paladin is decent, 18 str/20 cha base, he holds his own with a falchion and healing and whatnot. Check.
The barb is a power attacking/sneak attacking machine so far. No problems there.
The monk has provided a lot for the group, no problem.
And our little future arcane trickster... well, his feats are such: combat expertise, improved feint, improved sunder, power attack. He spends most of his time throwing telekinetic fists (the transmuter power) or trying to feint/sneak attack with his longsword.
I'm worried that he's going to fall behind even further in combat. Now, he's great out of combat, with his 20 intelligence and insane skills (the guy has one point in EVERY knowledge skill, giving him a +9 skill check in each) as well as speaking 12 languages. So, he'll probably feel involved and all, but whenever combat breaks, he's kinda not so useful yet.
I don't really know what I'm asking here... but just to maybe see if you've run into any player like this before. His whole thing is he wants to get an adamantium swordbreaker dagger and sunder weapons and then start sneak attacking. I figured straight rogue or rogue fighter would be better at that... but then he went wizard.
Will he become more viable when he gets TWF and the Arcane trickster class? Because right now, the paladin and barbarian far outclass his damage with their big two-handers, and the monk fairly outdamages him with a better attack roll and flurry of blows.
In my experience the Rogue/Wizard combination can really dish out the damage, but not with melee weapons. He wants to be standing 15ft from his target and using hide and/or invisibility, or flanking to sneak attack with a range touch attack like an Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray. His lower attack bonus is less of a disadvantage and he's less likely to loose his smaller number of hit points :)
Sounds like the problem is that he has two feats that are based off of base attack (power attack, and combat expertise) and is currently rocking what- a 2 BAB? I would see if you could get him to perhaps choose one direction or the other as he is never going to have any kind of decent attack bonus if he is using those feats.
PS If he takes a few ranks in acrobatics, he gets AC bonuses when attacking defensively or putting up a total defense.
On second thought, perhaps I'm just not seeing his plan. Maybe he is going to be the True-Strike-defensive-power-sneak-attack master?
Okay, I'll explain a bit more about him. I don't remember his 1st level spells off the top of my head, but I think he got Magic Missile, burning hands, armor, and enlarge person. 2nd level is scorching ray and bull's strength. So far (hasn't found any spellbooks to start copying yet).
He only took Combat Expertise to get improved feint (he's maxing out bluff) and he only took Power attack to get Improved Sunder (he really wants to use that swordbreaker dagger). As he goes forward, I'm pretty sure he's going to get Two Weapon Fighting and Exotic Weapon: Swordbreaker Dagger.
I tried to act excited when he picked up scorching ray, to subtly tell him to focus on ranged touch attacks for the sneak attack bonus therein, but he wants to break people's weapons too. And I sure hate telling a player "no" so we'll see how he works out, I guess.
Okay, I'll explain a bit more about him. I don't remember his 1st level spells off the top of my head, but I think he got Magic Missile, burning hands, armor, and enlarge person. 2nd level is scorching ray and bull's strength. So far (hasn't found any spellbooks to start copying yet).
He only took Combat Expertise to get improved feint (he's maxing out bluff) and he only took Power attack to get Improved Sunder (he really wants to use that swordbreaker dagger). As he goes forward, I'm pretty sure he's going to get Two Weapon Fighting and Exotic Weapon: Swordbreaker Dagger.
I tried to act excited when he picked up scorching ray, to subtly tell him to focus on ranged touch attacks for the sneak attack bonus therein, but he wants to break people's weapons too. And I sure hate telling a player "no" so we'll see how he works out, I guess.
Well if he would be throwing Enlarge Person & Bulls Strenght to others (+Armor to monk) he would be making a real difference right now.
Sneaking around with dagger won't do much good for group. Also Power Attack - Improved Sunder just doesn't suit mage / rogue at all. I could justify feint, if he ever gets to Greater Feint (so in this case also he should think others).
I can't predict the future, but the only times he's used the Enlarge Person has been on the Barbarian so far, so he isn't against buffing the party, per se. They all just got level 5 so he hasn't had a chance to use Bull's yet, so he might be throwing that on the Barb also.
Also, he is going for Greater Feint at some point (which would help everyone).
It sounds like a really cool character. He sure is paying dues now, but I think he will be able to set up good moves for himself if he is willing to go through a little set-up first.
A GM, I would just make sure that he finds a wand of scorching ray, and maybe acid arrow for the hell of it. If he gets mirror image, and plays carefully, he should find a chance to shine.
It sounds like a really cool character. He sure is paying dues now, but I think he will be able to set up good moves for himself if he is willing to go through a little set-up first.
A GM, I would just make sure that he finds a wand of scorching ray, and maybe acid arrow for the hell of it. If he gets mirror image, and plays carefully, he should find a chance to shine.
And see, this is what I need to hear. It would be very easy for me to drop a scroll of mirror image in the next treasure they find. He can either be smart about it (scribe it) or not (cast it).
Good tip about the wand too.
Looks like he isn't really built well, I would have personally gone for a more ranged kind of character with stuff like point blank and precise shot (works with the blasting spells aswell).
I saw it coming from the beginning, but I guess I should be blessed that some people play the game for the role playing and character development aspects and not ROLL playing.
Anyway, here's my party: level 5 paladin, level 4 barb (invulnerable rager alternate)/1 rogue(thug alternate), level 5 monk, and (here's the problem child) 3 wizard (transmuter)/2 rogue.
So, the paladin is decent, 18 str/20 cha base, he holds his own with a falchion and healing and whatnot. Check.
The barb is a power attacking/sneak attacking machine so far. No problems there.
The monk has provided a lot for the group, no problem.
And our little future arcane trickster... well, his feats are such: combat expertise, improved feint, improved sunder, power attack. He spends most of his time throwing telekinetic fists (the transmuter power) or trying to feint/sneak attack with his longsword.
I'm worried that he's going to fall behind even further in combat. Now, he's great out of combat, with his 20 intelligence and insane skills (the guy has one point in EVERY knowledge skill, giving him a +9 skill check in each) as well as speaking 12 languages. So, he'll probably feel involved and all, but whenever combat breaks, he's kinda not so useful yet.
I don't really know what I'm asking here... but just to maybe see if you've run into any player like this before. His whole thing is he wants to get an adamantium swordbreaker dagger and sunder weapons and then start sneak attacking. I figured straight rogue or rogue fighter would be better at that... but then he went wizard.
Will he become more viable when he gets TWF and the Arcane trickster class? Because right now, the paladin and barbarian far outclass his damage with their big two-handers, and the monk fairly outdamages him with a better attack roll and flurry of blows.
Frozen, are you certain that this character wants to be useful in combat? I love playing a facesmashing Barbarian from time to time, but when I play a Bard, I play them for the out-of-combat appeal. I may be a huge minority here, but I even enjoy being terrible in combat sometimes, because it enhances the immersion / realistic fantasy appeal(I'm playing Iolas on purpose! You're playing Hercules! Let me goof off in combat and get the puzzles done, you smash things!). A Wizard / Rogue has a lot of appeal in this regard. Since he isn't & won't be combat viable for a while, maybe present him with some fun roleplaying opportunities?
If he is designing the character to be viable in combat late-campaign, from my personal experience he will fall short (2-4 sneak attack dice is vastly inferior to a 2H or dual-wield combatant, & losing caster levels is going to make his Wizard vastly inferior to pure Wizards). On the upside, as the only arcane caster in the group, even a diluted caster is better than a non-caster past level 9 or so.
If you're really worried about it - figure out what evocation spells he has & throw enemies his way that have vulnerabilities that align with his elemental damage.
Arcane tricksters are pretty bad until about level 10-14 in combat, so let him enjoy himself however he can.
The thing you should encourage is the use of knowledge skills as a free action to give info on their opponents. A LOT of DMs miss that part of the rules. It's here: Monster Lore
Basically, encourage him by giving him that crucial bit of information that lets everyone do their job better.