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Does the helm's ability to have an attack act as if the target is flat-footed override a rogue's uncanny dodge? Or the fact that uncanny dodge says you can’t be caught flat footed trump it? I could see it both ways. You are not truly flat footed just treated as such do to the properties of the helm; the target is not necessarily caught off guard.
But the term flat-footed is used so.........
Who gets nerfed here?, the Stag lord's awesome helm or the rogue's class ability?
Does the helm's ability to have an attack act as if the target is flat-footed override a rogue's uncanny dodge? Or the fact that uncanny dodge says you can’t be caught flat footed trump it? I could see it both ways. You are not truly flat footed just treated as such do to the properties of the helm; the target is not necessarily caught off guard.
But the term flat-footed is used so.........
Who gets nerfed here?, the Stag lord's awesome helm or the rogue's class ability?
In my game, I have ruled it so that the Helm does not trump Uncanny Dodge.
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In my game, I have ruled it so that the Helm does not trump Uncanny Dodge.Does the helm's ability to have an attack act as if the target is flat-footed override a rogue's uncanny dodge? Or the fact that uncanny dodge says you can’t be caught flat footed trump it? I could see it both ways. You are not truly flat footed just treated as such do to the properties of the helm; the target is not necessarily caught off guard.
But the term flat-footed is used so.........
Who gets nerfed here?, the Stag lord's awesome helm or the rogue's class ability?
Thanks Firstbourne, that's the way we played it when it came up during the Stag Lord fight, but now that the helm is in the hands of a PC and will get continued use we want to pick one and go with it. and it looks like the decision goes to uncanny dodge.
Not so fast. In the Kingmakers game I am in the helm trumps Uncanny Dodge.
I was thinking Uncanny Dodge should work til I reread this line:
A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Chapter 8) against her.
I'd argue the helmet is causing a magical 'feint'
It hasn't come up in my game, but if a rogue can be denied his uncanny dodge from mundane means (a feint), surely a magical effect could also cause him to lose it. I'd probably rule that the helm trumps uncanny dodge.
Activating
this ability is a free action, and once activated, your next
ranged attack against a target within 30 feet is made as if
that target were flat-footed against you—this allows a rogue
to gain the benefit of sneak attack with this shot. If you don’t
make a ranged attack within 1 round of activating this power,
the insight fades and is wasted for that day.
You are not flat footed, therefore uncanny dodge doesnt work. It just gives the shooter the bonus and a rogue to sneak attack. nothing to do with the target
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OK, so if I understand this correctly, the use of a ranged touch attack coupled with the use of this ability results in the target losing his dexterity bonus to AC (as if he were flat footed). Essentially, in this scenario, the target loses the benefit of his armor (touch attack) AND the benefit of his Dexterity (flat footed).
Is that a true statement? Is that the intent?
My initial understanding (due to the wording) was that it simply lets a rogue gain the benefit of a sneak attack even though/while normal conditions would not allow it. So, based on my interpretation, this item would only be useful to a rogue with regards to the insightful shot.
I would rule that they cancel each other out, kind of like Light and Darkness spells, leaving the end condition as if neither existed. Therefore, the rogue could be caught flat-footed, but only if the normal conditions for flat-footed were met (without Uncanny Dodge), not the "any time, anwhere" conditions of the Helm.
Just my two cents. Honestly, it would be reasonable just about any way you did it.
This issue has not come up in our game, but the issue that I'm having is about the new Sniper rules from the APG and the 30ft limit in the helms description.
Does the new Sniper rules allow you to increase that 30ft range for on the helmet or no? Since this was specifically created to allow rogues to use their sneak attack at range?
Deadly Range (Ex): At 3rd level, a sniper increases the range at which she can apply her sneak attack damage by 10 feet. This range increases by 10 feet for every 3 levels after 3rd. This ability replaces trap sense.
Helm's ability : In addition, once per day the helm may be called upon to enhance any ranged attack made by the wearer to make an insightful shot. Activating this ability is a free action, and once activated, your next ranged attack against a target within 30 feet is made as if that target were flat-footed against you—this allows a rogue to gain the benefit of sneak attack with this shot.
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This issue has not come up in our game, but the issue that I'm having is about the new Sniper rules from the APG and the 30ft limit in the helms description.
Does the new Sniper rules allow you to increase that 30ft range for on the helmet or no? Since this was specifically created to allow rogues to use their sneak attack at range?
Deadly Range (Ex): At 3rd level, a sniper increases the range at which she can apply her sneak attack damage by 10 feet. This range increases by 10 feet for every 3 levels after 3rd. This ability replaces trap sense.
Helm's ability : In addition, once per day the helm may be called upon to enhance any ranged attack made by the wearer to make an insightful shot. Activating this ability is a free action, and once activated, your next ranged attack against a target within 30 feet is made as if that target were flat-footed against you—this allows a rogue to gain the benefit of sneak attack with this shot.
The ability of Deadly Range doesn’t add any benefit to the helm as I read it. RAW, the helm’s ability is strictly within 30 feet. The “this allows a rogue to gain the benefit” portion seems to be a bonus of clarification.