Okay, here's my conundrum. I'm planning on building a Inquisitor who primarily wields a repeating crossbow. I know that crossbows are inferior weapons, and even though Inquisitors are the class most proficient with crossbows in the game, they don't get any benefit to using them.
For example, it really agitates me that the Inquisitor can't learn Point Blank Master. PBM is a cool feat, and I think it fits in perfectly with a class that has proficiency primarily with ranged weapons, but usually stays in the thick of things in order to get the most benefit out of Solo Tactics and all of his teamwork feats, and quite probably to make good use of his domain abilities.
So while looking for ways to get some more use out of my crossbow (eg, getting feats like Point Blank Master), I thought about taking a dip into Zen Archer Monk for 3 levels.
Yes that's right, my repeating crossbow Inquisitor is contemplating taking a dip into Zen Archery, while still using his crossbow. It seems cheesy as hell- but I think Inquisitors should already have access to Point Blank Master, and this is the quickest, and possibly most effect way to get it.
The Zen Archer is front loaded with a ton of abilities, but the question is, what works with crossbows? Obviously the two extra bonus feats work, and so would Point Blank Master at 3rd. But what about something like Zen Archery? It lets a monk use Wis in place of Dex for ranged attack rolls made with a bow. Does that work with a crossbow?
I hope it does work. Like I said, this is cheesy as hell, but I already have to multiclass to get Point Blank Master (which blows), and this would be the best way I think.
So what it it? Are crossbows considered bows? Or am I forced to do something less optimal (like take Fighter 4) to get something Inquisitors should already have access to?
crossbows are not bows, so Zen archery does not work with it. Some of the extra feats would, but both flurry and the monks PBM would not work with the crossbow as it spells out bows.
Crossbows are simply not the same weapon category as bows.
Do you have any page numbers or posts to back that up? All that a crossbow is is a mechanically drawn bow- it is still considered archery.
And even if what you say is the case, why wouldn't Point Blank Master work? In that particular bonus feat, it says nothing about needing to use it with bows. It just says you get the feat for free. Cheese, I know. But like I said earlier, it's cheese to get something I believe Inquisitors should have already had.
Sigh its not a bow. The most clear is Page 56 under fighter lists bows. The zen Archer lists bows, each and every one. Crossbows are simply not the same weapon.If you look on page 56 you will see they also are listed in a different category.
They are related like a dagger is related to a great sword. But they are also not the same weapon.
If a feat says bows it works only one bows , if it works on crossbows it says so. The monks ability says bows, which do not include crossbows. The class spell out the weapons it works whit. Crossbows are not listed among them.
A fighter could use PBM with a crossbow, for the zen archer it stats he gains PBM with bows. Which does not include crossbows.
Do you have any page numbers or posts to back that up? All that a crossbow is is a mechanically drawn bow. And even if what you say is the case, why wouldn't Point Blank Master work? In that particular bonus feat, it says nothing about needing to use it with bows. It just says you get the feat for free. Cheese, I know. But like I said earlier, it's cheese to get something I believe Inquisitors should have already had.
Little facts like crossbows are listed seperately as simple weapons and bows are martial perhaps? Or one fires arrows and the other quarrels? Completely different rules for str mods? They are different.
*Sigh* It was a longshot and I knew it. I just wanted to make something work because there is just simply not enough love for the crossbow.
*Sigh* It was a longshot and I knew it. I just wanted to make something work because there is just simply not enough love for the crossbow.
In support of your goal, all i can say is this: If you are not playing PFS, approach your DM with the idea and see if he will allow it. It's not a game breaking desire. I personally wouldn't be heavily against it, but all groups have their own comfort zones for what a DM will use/allow.
Take a look at crossbow mastery, not much for you there, but a crossbow fighter could keep up for the most part with a bow fighter with that. Point blank mastery will work with crossbos for a fighter, just not the monk.
In support of your goal, all i can say is this: If you are not playing PFS, approach your DM with the idea and see if he will allow it. It's not a game breaking desire. I personally wouldn't be heavily against it, but all groups have their own comfort zones for what a DM will use/allow.
+1
My GM runs a Steampunk homebrew setting where firearms are prevalent. We converted the Zen Archer into the Zen Gunslinger with very little effort, basically just replacing any reference to bows with firearms.
See what you and your GM can agree upon to make it an enjoyable experience for you.
The Inquisitor isn't owed Point Blank Master anymore than he is owed Crossbow Mastery or Deadly Aim or any other martial feat.
If the Inquisitor wants to spend the feats he can get Crossbow Mastery or Deadly Aim. A pure Inquisitor can never, ever take Point Blank Master. He will never meet the prerequisites for it. And that, in my opinion, is just wrong.
Funny thing: The Inquisitor is proficient with more types of crossbows than a Crossbowman Fighter is.
As for what everyone else said, I really wanted to try out the Inquisitor class, and my DM doesn't really let homebrewing in. I wanted the crossbow for fluff reasons- I just didn't want to be completely shit. That said, I may take 4 levels of Fighter, but will probably just scrap the idea and come up with something else, which kind of sucks, but I'll live.
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I don't consider using Zen Archery with a crossbow to be cheese; anyone who objects to it on flavour grounds, surely should be objecting to the concept with any weapon at all, surely?
The whole 'finding your inner being', 'becoming the arrow', 'using your third eye' either applies to all missile weapons, or none, surely?
(Okay; maybe not self-propelled missiles, but I digress...).
What I did find odd was the following;
Okay, here's my conundrum. I'm planning on building a Inquisitor who primarily wields a repeating crossbow. I know that crossbows are inferior weapons, and even though Inquisitors are the class most proficient with crossbows in the game, they don't get any benefit to using them.
Where does that come from?
Surely they're as proficient as any other class that has them on their starting list?I'd say the Ranger would be a contender for 'most proficient', and only if he takes the option of the Combat Style path, or the Fighter, due to his having double feats to spend?
Other than that, not cheesy at all.
The people who denounce the idea of a warrior shutting his eyes and letting the weapon spirits apeak to him, probably wouldn't enjoy Daredevil, Zatoichi, or Star Wars: A New Hope, either, eh?
What I did find odd was the following;
Okay, here's my conundrum. I'm planning on building a Inquisitor who primarily wields a repeating crossbow. I know that crossbows are inferior weapons, and even though Inquisitors are the class most proficient with crossbows in the game, they don't get any benefit to using them.Where does that come from?
Surely they're as proficient as any other class that has them on their starting list?
I'd say the Ranger would be a contender for 'most proficient', and only if he takes the option of the Combat Style path, or the Fighter, due to his having double feats to spend?
Sorry, I cleared it up in a later post, but what I meant is that right out of the gate, the Inquisitor is proficient with every single type of crossbow in the corebook- even all the exotic ones. No other class can say that. So it seems like the devs are suggesting crossbows as a good thematic choice for the Inquisitor- but there is absolutely no mechanical reason to take them at all.
Under the fighter, the bow category is listed as
Bows: composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow.
Sorry.