Pointless exposition: When I was looking at the weapon illustrations in the core rulebook, I saw the club had spikes and somehow immediately thought "why isn't there a two handed martial version of the morningstar?" So, I started statting one up as a house rules weapon.
In doing my comparisons, I compared my new versions to standard great axe, greatsword, and falchion. As a 2d6 x2, it was quite inferior (of course). As 3d6 x2, a little too good (that's two dice steps up from morningstar, just like great club is two steps up from club). I settled on 2d8 x2 as the best stats to make it worth taking but not overly so.
Upon seeing that 2d6 x2 was IMO a bit weak for a two handed martial weapon, I thought "what about the great club? I mean, I knew it was weak, but that's just ridiculously weak." The solution seemed obvious: make it a simple weapon. That way, it is available as a genuinely good option to some classes.
Also, a number of historical manuals show "peasant's staff" as a weapon and it's pretty much a great club, so it fits contextually as a peasant's (simple) weapon.
The Point: the great club has always been an underpowered martial weapon that no one took except for flavor. Clubs are typically peasant weapons. Why can't a great club be simple? That said, am I totally missing something broken I'd be allowing?
It's a change I made a long time ago. It makes sense and most classes that could possible take advantage (clerics, rogues and bard) generally have a method of getting a decent two handed weapon or do better with light weapons.
Basically unless you are afraid of Rogues sneak attacking with a greatclub I don't think it's a change you really have to worry about.
I don't know if my games - which don't cleave very tightly to the rules - count as much of a test, but one of my players suggested this some time ago, and we went for it. I don't remember it being a big deal at all. I like the idea of the 2-hander morningstar, though. I might crib that!
I've done this before, too. I made the greatclub a simple weapon, and replaced it with the maul (martial weapon, 1d10 B, x3 crit, +2 on sunder checks). It may be worth giving the maul the trip quality in order to balance it vs. the heavy flail - I can picture a blow to the knees taking someone off their feet.
PlungingForward, if you want it here's a copy of the versions and my math, so you can decide for yourself which version to allow
I did the write ups assuming a fighter wielding it, and all of the relevant stuff should be listed below the table
PlungingForward, if you want it here's a copy of the versions and my math, so you can decide for yourself which version to allow
I did the write ups assuming a fighter wielding it, and all of the relevant stuff should be listed below the table
Thanks! Consider it well stolen.
try 3D4 or 4d4 instead of 2d6
Not bad suggestions, but I think I like the 2d8 better. The 3d4 falls too short of great axe at lvl 16, and the 4d4 outshines everything too much at lvl 6 and below.