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I would advise switching your strength and your con. You already have a D10HD and the ability to self-heal as a swift action as early as level 2.
Rest looks fine. I would honestly have dex 13 and con 14. Your going to be in full plate anyway, and the 1 point of dex difference in AC will only show up if your full plate happens to be mithral, and even then its negligible.
Ideally- Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18.
Some would argue that the 18 should be strength. That argument has its merits but I prefer a cha powered paladin. 15 is plenty.
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Sure, you can be good. You may not be at the upper end of optimized melee performance like a more strength-based paladin, but the game has never required that level of optimization for a character to be reasonably competent and fun to play.
If you grab a (Mighty)bow and some Ranged feats (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot if Dex 17+) you will become an anti-evil artillery. Remember, Max Dex in Full Plate is for AC only, you can still benefit from a +2 and more to your ranged attacks (and all other Dexterity-related abilities, like Reflex saves) even into a heavy armor. And Smite archery is quite nasty.
Pick a Buckler and a decent melee weapon and become a 'switch hitter' (ranged all the time, drop the bow and draw your melee when threatened); the buckler does not give the -1 penalty to your attacks made with the shield arm when using a bow or crossbow, after all.
"Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it."
However, I too would switch Str with Con (or even 'rotate' the three scores; Str 14, Dex 15, Con 13), since a good Str score would benefit Mighty Composite Long/Shortbows.
Just my 2c.
If you're going for the traditional paladin thing I wouldn't put much at all into Dex. My paladin is unhittable...but it's not because of Dex. Agree with leaving the 18 in Cha. It powers a good many of your abilities.
M
A Paladin as you want to play it doesn't have much use for Dex. Str, Con, Cha. You'll get full plate soon and since you're in melee you won't need the Dex for ranged. High Cha will help up your AC when you smite. I have a Half-Orc Paladin in my Kingmaker game...my monsters hate him, they can't seem to hit his pretty lil face. :D
Archer paladins can be very fearsome in PF if built well, and Dex will be important to them.
However, if you're aiming at a melee paladin I'd likely switch either Str and Dex or Str and Con - probably Str and Dex.
Full plate, a buckler, and high CHA to start. If you take the Rich Parents trait you can start yourself out with some nice armor. Use the buckler when you need AC over hitting power (via two-handed, if you're using longsword or similar).
M
The Sword and Board Two-Weapon Fighter using light shield bashes to supplement a one handed weapon is one of the favorite builds in Pathfinder.
The problem is that it's incredibly MAD requiring Strength, Dex and Charisma. Unless you have a ridiculously high point buy this means that:
a)you are hard pressed to afford 18s because you need a Dex of 15, a strength of 14+, and a charisma of 16+ - even with an obvious int dump stat this often means that you are looking at dumping wisdom or con, neither of which is appealing even with divine grace and
b)your DPR is going to lag behind the easier to optimize THF or archer paladin builds.
I'm not sure the TWF Paladin really becomes viable until a 25 point buy but if you are willing to go with a charisma of 14-15 at char-gen I think it can be done with a 20 point buy.
Archer paladin is a great way to go.
In conjunction with the mount, it allows from some great mounted archery combos. Why wouldn't you move 50' and make a full attack?
My new friend who is in the group already advised to give him 14 Dexterity since the group needs someone who can stay alive moreso than deliver damage.
Your friend says need a meat shield/tank, I agree with the stats adjustments that Alexander provided above.
("Ideally- Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18.")If you're 4th level use your +1 stat increase on STR. At 8th and 12h level it really depends on where you want to end up.
Equipment: Fullplate Armor, Hvy. Shield, 1-handed weapon and several backup weapons for different damage types. (blunt, slash, pierce, range/thrown)
Feats: Toughness, Shield focus, Dodge, etc. (Health & AC)
Other Feat thoughts... Endurance, Die Hard and Weapon Focus
I recommend 'against' using a bow, if your goal is to 'take hits and stay alive', except as a backup weapon against flying creatures or something.
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...what is the upside for having such a high dexterity as a Tankadin?
A high DEX fighter/paladin/ranger usually focuses on the bow(not something you do in melee*) OR on two-weapon fighting, but TWF requires a 15+ DEX unless you start as a ranger. A character focused on thrown weapons uses DEX as well*. (*There's pretty much a feat to fix everything, things I've asterixed are un-feated statements.)
A TWF'er can also use a shield as his off-hand weapon, but again requires a 15+ DEX and something you should probably have the DM explain, it's a long-term build for a paladin.
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My new friend who is in the group already advised to give him 14 Dexterity since the group needs someone who can stay alive moreso than deliver damage.Your friend says need a meat shield/tank, I agree with the stats adjustments that Alexander provided above.
("Ideally- Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18.")
If you're 4th level use your +1 stat increase on STR. At 8th and 12h level it really depends on where you want to end up.Equipment: Fullplate Armor, Hvy. Shield, 1-handed weapon and several backup weapons for different damage types. (blunt, slash, pierce, range/thrown)
Feats: Toughness, Shield focus, Dodge, etc. (Health & AC)
Other Feat thoughts... Endurance, Die Hard and Weapon FocusI recommend 'against' using a bow, if your goal is to 'take hits and stay alive', except as a backup weapon against flying creatures or something.
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...what is the upside for having such a high dexterity as a Tankadin?A high DEX fighter/paladin/ranger usually focuses on the bow(not something you do in melee*) OR on two-weapon fighting, but TWF requires a 15+ DEX unless you start as a ranger. A character focused on thrown weapons uses DEX as well*. (*There's pretty much a feat to fix everything, things I've asterixed are un-feated statements.)
A TWF'er can also use a shield as his off-hand weapon, but again requires a 15+ DEX and something you should probably have the DM explain, it's a long-term build for a paladin.
This is all solid advice. If you REALLY want to emphasise AC i'd also take tower shield proficiency or dip a level into fighter to get it, but you'll probably be fne without it.
I would recommend a light shield or a buckler over a heavy shield though- with a heavy shield you won't be able to swift action lay on hands yourself.
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Im sorry but I don't honestly thik the guy giving you advice really understands the class. Paladins have access to the heaviest armour, a privilege shared only with Fighters. With the stats you have, you need your higher stats in charisma, strength and constitution. A +1 dexterity (12 or 13) is all full-plate will allow, and the 13 is ideal as it also allows you access to the Dodge feat to boost your AC and Touch AC later if you wish.
Paladin's have a good AC from their heavy armour etc. but due to lay on hands they are actually ok to take the occasional hit and keep on fighting, more so than a fighter and barbarian.
If your primary role is "meat shield", high Dex helps quite a bit at low levels. Unfortunately, once you reach higher levels, you're really going to want Con instead. At that point, the AC difference evaporate (since you run into the limits allowed by the best armor), but you'll have significantly lower Hit Points.
If you prefer to play a high-Dex Paladin, make missile fire a major part of his routine to make full use of the stat. Start by buying some javelins, so you get your Strength bonus on damage. Don't switch to a bow until fourth level or later.
I'd have given him an 18 Str and 15 Cha to start out with. The Paladin's Charisma-based abilities build up as he levels, but he can smash down bad guys the old-fashioned way all day long.
Well, if you are going dex-based with a paladin, there are three options open to you:
1) Archer. Archer paladins can be awesomely deadly, and smiting at range is as good as smiting up close. Better, as the target does nto get to hit you back easily.
2) TWFer. Paladins are at best mediocre when using TWF, as they often do not have the feats or the dex to pull it off easily ... unless you smite. Then by your god do you deliver some whup-ass! You can always play mix'n'match with a shield to get a sword and board build too.
3) Swashbuckler. Yes, it sounds like an oxymoron, but it can work, especially if you concentrate on critical hits with a rapier and concentrate on hitting deep and often rather than hard. In the case of your build you don't really have the int to pull it off, but it's one to bear in mind.
I have a 12 dex with my paladin and I am pretty much the last one to go down in any fight. The swift heal and Full Plate will be ur better friend then a higher dex.
Um, noretake, you do know the PF Paladin is a Charisma based caster, not a Wisdom based caster, don't you?
Well, Paladins were Wis-based casters in 3.x, so maybe your GM didn't notice the change in Pathfinder.
Believe me, there are lots of small changes between 3.x and Pathfinder - and more often than not, these lead astray people who played older versions, since they don't 'triple check' all the small minutiae and incur in errors (I know what I'm saying because it's something that happened to me several times already).
However, a 12 Wis is good for Will saves and for Sense Motive checks, so overall it's not a bad thing IMHO :) .
Just my 2c.
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I play a 15th paladin and frankly, if I'd rebuild his stats I'd make STR a dump stat. DMG from STR is negligible compared to the DMG you get from the Smite ability. So elf pally with high Dex and high Cha, just enough STR to get Power Attack, Weapon Finesse, elven curved blade, and mithril armor is the way to go IMO.
Relying on smite to power the bulk of your damage dealing capacity is problematic in many ways. Not every encounter is going to be against a BBEG, there might be neutral opposition or even good opposition that has been mind controlled :| Even dumping down to strength 13 (minimum for power attack) means that your non-smite DPR is going to take a significant drop, if you are the primary DPR/meat shield (and let's be honest that's pretty much the Paladin role) sucking during some combats can significantly reduce the overall party effectiveness. Now if you have another frontline fighter type that can cover the weakness then great but I'm reluctant to suggest a low Strength build unless you are doing a mounted halfling paladin charger.
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Your DM is thinking pre-pathfinder. Wisdom is now irrelevant to Paladins in terms of their spellcasting.
You made the right move having charisma higher than strength, trust me. It pays far more dividends and is twice as valuable for strength against Team Evil (Dragons, Undead, Demons) when it really counts.
Your DM is thinking pre-pathfinder. Wisdom is now irrelevant to Paladins in terms of their spellcasting.
Agreed, other than Perception and Will Saves, Wisdom is effectively a dumb stat for a Paladin in Pathfinder. Assuming you're playing Pathfinder and NOT 3.5E, you and the DM really need to take a time out and read the 3-4 pages of the Paladin class.
Having only a 12 DEX shuts you out of taking the 'Dodge' Feat, which is one of the few 'stacks with everything' points of armor class and extremely useful for someone in Fullplate armor.
For what it's worth and for what you're trying to build, I still say Alexander had the 'correct' ability layout... Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18. From what you've said it doesn't sound like the other players have much a clue, if most of them are on 2nd and 3rd characters, either that or your DM is a bit tough on players... as long as they're having fun I guess, lol.
Another thing that has me kind of curious, are the stats you mentioned originally (Str-13, Dex-14, Con-15, Int-10, Wis-10, Cha-18) already including his half-orc racial adjustment, +2 to one ability score? Personally I 'would not' build a melee character with a 13 STR unless he was a 'small' race or a 13 was my absolute highest stat roll.
Archer Paladin..
... either that or your DM is a bit tough on players..."So a very astute observation sir...LOL...
Sorry this is slightly off-topic...
Been there done that got the t-shirt. I don't know how your group works or even the players you game with, but usually players only continue with those kind of DMs because another game/DM is not available. The ultimate goal is typically, to have fun and participate in a story while spending time with friends, that can be difficult and demoralizing when your on "Bob the Fighter #3". However that largely depends on how he handles the deaths, new characters and the overall mentality of the group... "role play" (An epic story of heroes and their struggle.) or "roll play" (If it bleeds, we can kill it!).EDIT: Long story short... if a DM wants to kill you, there isn't a "meat shield" that's gonna save you, as your friend would hope.
I played a paladin/duellist that drove our GM to tears.
I played a paladin/duellist that drove our GM to tears.
I love you man! That's a great concept!
I played a paladin/duellist that drove our GM to tears.That weak, huh?
More like "went through enemies like a hot knife through butter". Of course, that's what warriors do, but that GM never got that.
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I played a paladin/duellist that drove our GM to tears.I love you man! That's a great concept!
I don't think he feels that way about men or mice. A ladies' man, our Kae.
Anyway, which part of the concept did you like? The driving GMs to tears or the idea that a paladin (supposed to have great charisma) is graceful and witty, and not just a stupid hunk?
Anyway, glad to be of service!
Anyway, which part of the concept did you like? The driving GMs to tears or the idea that a paladin (supposed to have great charisma) is graceful and witty, and not just a stupid hunk?
I like all my fighters to be smart and quick rather than big and strong. The idea of a paladin-swashbuckler is just awesomesauce, as they are usually 'knight in shining (heavy) armour' types ...
I played a paladin/duellist that drove our GM to tears.
A 'dashing' idea, what was his name ? Don Diego de la Vega (aka Zorro) :D ?
More like "went through enemies like a hot knife through butter". Of course, that's what warriors do, but that GM never got that.I played a paladin/duellist that drove our GM to tears.That weak, huh?
Yeah, except you're a Duelist. So CR - 6 encounters?
I imagine smite + precise strike + improved critical racked up the damage quite nicely, actually.
You said the name of something that includes the word precise and the name of something that included the name critical. As such I expect you meant to say 'would have been nice at half your current level'.
Well you must be the only one getting the joke, because I'm just not seeing it. I did some number crunching on duelists recently, and the damage gets very respectable compared to other combat builds.