|
First congratulations to those who won, for those who didn't, congratulations for trying, and keep writing. The only way to become better at it is doing it.
Now, before I offer any other feedback I want to explain how we scored. Ted came with a quite rational scoring form, which in the end saved us a lot of discussion.
I am sure I had commented elsewhere that the process was divided in scoring 4 aspects: Writing Ability, Topic Creativity, Originality and Overall Excellency. Each aspect was evaluated from 1 to 5 with a maximum per judge of 20 points.Since we were 5 judges the maximum became 100.
Ok, now that is all good and nice... what does it mean?
I took each story individually, without considering the rest or any other, just taking as example and benchmark what I had read in the past (specially "Before they were giants," which I was reading before the first entries arrived) and evaluated as following:
*Writing Ability:
This one is easy to point. I might not be native speaker, but I can see glaring grammatical mistakes. Here I also took into account how clear the ideas were read, the flow of the story, if it was confusing, the use of the language. Basically: "Does it read well and easily?" "Was the author clear on his ideas, or I think people might get confused?"
Here I look for ideas well defined, clear texts, fluidity of the story (I can't repeat this enough times).
I punished: wall text (its really hard to read), dialog of different characters in the same paragraph (its confusing), badly use of the narrator's point of view (1st person being omniscient, 2nd person is better for "play your own adventure" books), jumping between characters perspectives in the same fragment (which is annoying). Mostly.
*Topic Creativity:
This is about 2 things: a) The use of Golarion elements, b) and how you use them. The main question is "does this feel like Golarion?" Not just the Golarion I like, but Golarion in general, the vibrant world that brought us all together.
What I looked for was simply: I wanted to feel, taste, breath and see Golarion. It is not just to throw some names, it has to got the feeling, you know, the feeling you got when you read a new module, adventure path or chronicles book... you know its Golarion beyond the name in the cover.
What I punished? Disregarding of cannon, that it sounded more like general fiction or somewhere else fiction, I can understand small changes, mistakes or lack of knowledge... but not glaring ones that change the fundamental reality of the setting. I must admit I am a bit of a cannon lawyer, even while James said that some gonzo was ok :P
*Originality:
Lets be honest. There is NOTHING new below the sun. Every story has been already told. Just check your local library, blockbuster, videogame or comic or hobby stores... So what is Originality? Originality is to take those universal stories and told them in a way that the reader can relate to them and makes them forget that the story has already being told a thousand times. Make each story unique in their feel and identity, even if the story below has been told before.
The best example of this is the Avatar movie... it has no nothing new! yet millions loved it. It was not the story "Blue Pocahontas in Brave New World," nor the effects (we have seen them on too many movies, including Cameron's Aliens). It was Pandora, its feeling, the new creatures, and how the individuals reacted to them, in general what made Avatar an awesome movie... it was the sum of all its parts.
That is what I was looking for, interesting ways to use the elements at your disposition, how you presented them, were they interesting? was this cliché used in purpose? was it too gonzo?
What I punished? Gonzo and clichés for their own sake, lame and repetitive stories... and after the 10th story the Dragonlance syndrome
I must admit, after the 10th of this I was tired, really tired, 5 of them in a row was death... even when they were well written, there is simply not mystery there, as a reader it was not about what will happen, just how it happen and how well written, yet... it was tiring.
*Overall Excellence:
This one is easy... it was basically "Do I dare pass this along to James Sutter?"
Overall Excellence is "does this deserve to be published as it is?"
Is not only about being well written, with something novel and good Golarion elements, its also "Will I want to read this?"
There are many stories, well written, using the right elements... but I wouldn't buy a book about them as I would hardly buy a book of "Golarions herbolary" which surely would be well written, had lots of Golarion elements and quite possibly quite original, but sounds mostly boring to hell! (not that I think they can make something interesting with an article about that)
So yes, if it was clunky, boring, uninteresting, or simply was not the top notch of the stories we want to publish in quality and presentation (don't worry about the general format, i can work with that) it went some points down.
I think I am fair... I don't have to like an story for grade it well. The thematic might not be to my liking but well written stories usually got a decent grade. But as a reader, I want to like something to keep reading it, no reader is under any obligation to read a bad story.
I think with this i give you all the generals about my own experience reading and reviewing this contest. And with this I invite you to ask for your personal feedbacks, either here or personally in my email: emontalve@pathfinderchronicler.net
I also invite my fellow judges to relate their own experience and give their own feedback, I am sure their experiences, as their tastes are different from mine and you all would be benefited by these all. I know I was.
That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I knew my story really wasn't anything terribly new. It was basically a noir murder mystery shoved into Kaer Maga with your typical damaged nameless protagonist.
Although, I have to admit, when I realized three weeks into the contest that Sutter was the one that wrote the Kaer Maga sourcebook - I almost chucked the whole story in favor of another. Hell of a lot of pressure to write something set in the final judge's own backyard and the last thing I wanted was it to look like I was pandering.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I'd be glad to take my feedback here. My email gets clogged enough sadly.
If you would be so kind as to e-mail me my score and feedback, I would greatly appreciate it. :-)
|
+1 on the feedback, emailed or right here, doesn't matter to me.
With such a variety of styles and subjects, did all judges read all of the submitted works, or did each one promote their top selections from a separate pile of work that only they had read?
And, as in the other thread, is there ANY chance for James (I know he'd have to read them) to read/comment on the rest of the top 10?
With such a variety of styles and subjects, did all judges read all of the submitted works, or did each one promote their top selections from a separate pile of work that only they had read?
The five judges read all of the submitted work and scored them on the categories above (max 5 in each category, for a maximum possible score of 20 from each judge).
I would love feedback on my story. It was titled "Darkness Before Dawn"
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I'd be glad to take my feedback here. My email gets clogged enough sadly.
I should probably mention the title shouldn't I?
Dusk of the Dawnflower Dervish.
Would greatly appreciate score and feedback/advise on "Hunger."
Montalve: I'd also be curious to see the judges comments. My story was "The Ujanti Sacrifice"
Curious as well - "Keeping the Band Together"
|
|
Thanks for the insight into how the judges' scoring system worked, Montalve. Whilst it was fun for me to try this year, having seen your thoughts I'm now certain that I couldn't write to save my life in this contest. I hope my entry was disqualified by the first judge to see it so that at least the others didn't have to look it. :-?
Sorry for entering, and I shall keep away in future.
Charles, not every one judge like I did.
The main bias with your story (considering I was the only one able to check the prelude) was that it felt like hoping from one side to the other, having little relation between each jump.Since I didn't catch the relationship between the ancient and modern aspect there was nothing to worry about thar.
besides while the story revolves about 2 characters there are a lot of individuals and leaving a lot of open hooks.
and please forget your last comment, the worst thing that one can do is stop trying. besides in the Chronicler I am the one who works more non-Golarion works... I simply find myself more comfortable writing my own fantasy...
|
|
+1 on the feedback, emailed or right here, doesn't matter to me.
My personal opinion
Simply gorgeous scenes, divided in the 3 aspect of Calistria: lust, vengeance and deception… the story is about the man who wants to become a god and the steps he proceeds fort that…
Tha character is absolutely chaotic neutral, and he is scary in that sense because you can expect anything! Oh and I do loved the Calistrian inquisitor, she is sweet, great love scene without becoming lewd.
And great ending scene… JCR does demonstrate a great knowledge of Golarion through Calistria and Absalom… one can’t take the Starstone test without ffirst proclaiming it the loudest.
but we had also a comment in contrast
Three-Faced Card just didn't click with me
I think the pacing of it seems awkward
I would tell him to keep in mind his word count and structure the "acts" to keep that in mind
Joe, Ty, my opinion on your emails.
Ah, if Ty is meant to be me, then you may have to resend that email. I changed it recently. And besides, I can take feedback here.
|
|
I would love feedback on my story as well. I have an pretty good idea about where it went wrong, but I can't wait to see the feedback. I know I wasn't near the top 10, but the fact that I actually submitted still makes me smile.
Thicker than blood, right?
Then I also feel it a bit forced the moment when both heroes are lauhgting at their nemeses... I get the idea, it just needs to flow a bit better.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I'd be glad to take my feedback here. My email gets clogged enough sadly.my personal comments after reading it:
There is specifically one transition in scenes that I get "where is the rest? what happened here?"
I could easily see the confusion there. The protagonist has been living in Kaer Maga for a bit and doesn't really see the need to narrate where he goes.
And yeah, he's a guy. Thought that would be obvious from having the Tallow Boy proposition him, but I suppose you would have to be somewhat familiar with the City of Strangers source to get that. The lack of name or identifier was intentional though.
I wrote "Reborn". I keep thinking that I should have gone with my working title "Zombie and Girl" but I didn't wanna get too jokey. I've gotten some feedback already but I'd be fond of knowing my score and hearing the notes that got me there.
|
|
I would love feedback on my story. It was titled "Darkness Before Dawn"
mmm
this was a tough piece to readit is well written to be sure, but harsh
Decently written, well used the hellknight elements…
But it was sometimes too damn descriptive… and it was really too graphic on the violence on a child… while its realistic and understandable… (and I can work with that) I doubt that would pass Paizo’s mature rate (only Logue torture children and get away with it :P)
This was one of the 2 pieces in which thought would not pass Paizo's mature standards.
I know, its an story about hope, and having Pharasma and Iomedae as background goddess does calls me, I am just not sure Paizo would let us publish something like this. Still it need more work on how the story flows, and a good edit would help it further. The thematic... mmm I would make the main character older, just for everyone safety. One of my fellow judges actually hates to see children endangered, eve if I do understand that its both realistic and that sounds quite factible as the kind of life one would get in such place as Cheliax... I know understand why Jordan's father left her in Lastwall...
No, you were not disqualified, nor you were judged any harsher for this, and actually you did pretty well 63 from 100
But please, don't stop writing, I want to read more of you... and I have no true complains about grim & gritty :)
|
|
Would greatly appreciate score and feedback/advise on "Hunger."
ahh Dark and harsh with some innocent view on it
Good story, good flavor, I disliked the halfling ranger (a ranger complaining about nature’s natural cycle? Really?), and the the priestess could have answered better… but i suppose she needed to be Gozrean to do so. Besides that point quite enjoyable, I liked the confrontation with the Urgothoan, it was expected.
I love chaotic scenes of combat.
I really liked this story, and like to see the effects of the Urgothoan cult.
there is some need to work on the text, make it more clear, fix some details, in general there is work too do mainly in the writing arena.still interesting to see a hafling ranger with a goat companion.
I am sure my fellow judges can tell you more :)
I am sure my fellow judges can tell you more :)
Yeah, I would like to echo this. The more voices ripping my stuff apart the better.
I guess I'm willing to take my medicine publicly as well.
Story was "Family Business."
|
|
I wrote "Reborn". I keep thinking that I should have gone with my working title "Zombie and Girl" but I didn't wanna get too jokey. I've gotten some feedback already but I'd be fond of knowing my score and hearing the notes that got me there.
66, the number of the beast!
ok almostLilith really liked it.
|
|
Montalve: I'd also be curious to see the judges comments. My story was "The Ujanti Sacrifice"
man... you were the 11th place with another story "A Sword by any other name...", yours is better written, but his was damn funny (score 78)
The Ujanti sacrifice is a very well written, innovative story attending an area most don’t use.
It has some details, especially in the last battle were I am not sure where the enemies come from, nor we have any description unless we have read about the beasts before (which is a problem when talking to people outside, and sometimes inside the community).
But the feeling of the place and the story is perfect.
actually this one was one of the ones I felt deserved and honorific mention... but each judge had one... and I liked another a bit more.
Comments: This story stood well. Most of all it had a conclusion. Got to give it something for that. Interesting elements brings this one above the pack.
yes, i am so obsessive that I keep everyone else notes... at least the ones I got.
|
|
Curious as well - "Keeping the Band Together"
Score 73, basically almost 4 stars in everyone views
my personal opinions:
Well written and funny, it would do well to have at least some edition, but in general a wonderful story making reference to nothing gamey.
I loved it.
yes, I hate to see gamy issues in an story... game rules has no place in an story, it doesn't make it better, not help it...
so looking at an story were there is good use of spells, an excellent beginning background and a deep relationship where the characters are their equal even with their glaring different... man your story was a joy to read.
Comments: I liked the friendship in the story but it just wasn't enough to push this piece into excellent territory.
|
|
Do you have feedback and a score for "You've gotta have Faith" by Nicholas Cardarelli?
lol, sorry. yes. I was more or less trying to go in order.
score: 69I think more than one judge though it lacked the punch and that it required more work (after checking the individual scores)
a) This story gets cooky points for having dead hobbits in the beginning (cookie points can be exchanged with lilith for cookies)
b) It’s a shame, this could have been an awesome horror story, alas it’s not an horror story…
c) Mmm the story could have benefited of not having the opening scene… it would have been read better as part of the journal… yes I know those kind of scenes are commonly used…
d) In general I like it, I like the conflict among the character under stress, what i like less is the cheerful way in which it ends. (not the happy ending.. but the cherfullness and confidence on the guy reading the diary)
e) Some mechanics on undeads’ revival are passed over for a good story… I applaud this… sometimes the cannon need to be broken… specially the wretched cannon about undeads… still I would have preferred some guilty on the cleric’s part
this was one of the first stories i read and reviewed, I was fresh... after a while it become shorter and more expeditious my reviews.
Comments: Hate the title. Not to big on the finer points of the story. The big revelations are just contrived. Bow tie ending not so interesting. With all the dwarves back to normal bingo....I guess there will be no treasure to be had. Shows a great sense of motion though.
|
|
Would definitely like to know my own feedback. My ability to feel shame died a long time ago so here is fine to post ^_^
(also wouldn't hate to know my end score too)
ahh yes, 4 more years
score: 67
personally I liked it a lot, but we judges are not made equal.
The narrative can be really improved, but the story in itself its good, really good, especially the ending… I didn’t expected it until I saw the red mantis, then I understood well… great if sad ending
Horrible premise. The idea is so bad it just wasn’t credibly supported. A forest plague is ok, but a this guy with the cure is so small minded. Like why?????
Which I insist that the alchemist was causing the plage in the 1st place :P
Edit: Sorry Joseph, I tried to give scores first of ones i had missed... and tried to go in order... lol but suddenly seeing too many Iomedaes is a bit overwhelming :P
|
|
I guess I'm willing to take my medicine publicly as well.
Story was "Family Business."
ok, you know you were close, so my notes
I really liked this story, its good, well defined and it reaches something specific.
Its incredible setting with lots of fantasy and the strange, and absolutely love it.
My real complains are 2:
A) It uses a few gamy references (“of course you are a bard!” kills part of the essence for me)
B) It would have been nice to see more from Golarion, but still what I saw from Kaer Maga was nice enough.
A little too graphic. Halfling sleeps with another chick. Menstral Cycle Blood Pigeons? Nothing dangling between your legs? I sense a bit of machoism here
Derek liked your story to uphold as Honorific Mention for the elements it has, he had another one in mind but he knew that that one would us all hung by Paizo's hangman
|
|
First of all, thank you for taking the time to appropriate feedback to us all. It's greatly appreciated.
Secondly, I know you guys got many more entrants than expected but I was wondering if there was any feedback for "All Promises Kept"?
Thank you in advance.
ok... yours is closer and have a Iomedae in the front... so no one will notice :P
score: 73
Ted and me loved it, another judge rated it also quite high... yours actually was among my personal list of Honorific mentions... it has some rough parts...but to tell the truth the ending brought the idea of tears to my eyes (and in the good sense), no other did that.
ok...
Good story, the end is full of feeling.
There are a few unnecessary things, but some serve to prove how this tiefling fights against the rising tide of darkness, even with little or no hope of at allof winning.
Some editing will do it better.Cookie points for having a true iomedaian
I got a good sense this was a Paladin. Solid ending. Not sure why I rate it so high, but it does have just about everything I am looking for
sometimes is about how we feel reading an story.