A feat-based approach to playing a lizardfolk in lieu of monster class levels and Pathfinder doing away with level adjustments.
Lizardfolk Racial Traits
• +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence: Lizardfolk are sturdy and simple.
• Medium: Lizardfolk are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Normal Speed: Lizardfolk have a base speed of 30 feet.
• Swimming: Lizardfolk have a swim speed of 15 feet. A lizardfolk has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A lizardfolk can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. A lizardfolk can use the run action while swimming, provided he swims in a straight line.
• Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution score before it risks drowning.
• Natural Weapons: Lizardfolk possess two claw natural attacks that inflicts 1d4 points of damage on a hit. This is a primary attack, or a secondary attack if the lizardfolk wields a manufactured weapon.
• Well-Balanced: Lizardfolk receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks.
• Languages: Lizardfolk begin play speaking Draconic. Lizardfolk with high Intelligence can choose bonus languages from the following: Aklo, Aquan, Common, Giant, Goblin, or Orc.
Ferocious Bite
Prerequisite: Character level 5th, lizardfolk.
Benefit: You gain a bite natural attack that inflicts 1d4 points of damage on a hit. This is a primary attack, or a secondary attack if you wield a manufactured weapon. Your bite attack damage is multiplied by 3 on a critical hit.
Hardened Scales
Prerequisite: Character level 1st, lizardfolk.
Benefit: You gain a +2 natural armor bonus to your Armor Class.
Monstrous Strength
Prerequisite: Character level 7th, lizardfolk.
Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to your Strength score.
make the swim speed 20', maybe give a +1 nat. armor bonus
The swim speed came from the Bestiary, which seemed odd to me too, and I agree with you on starting with +1 nat AC.
A feat-based approach to playing a lizardfolk in lieu of monster class levels and Pathfinder doing away with level adjustments.
Lizardfolk Racial Traits
• +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence: Lizardfolk are sturdy and simple.
• Medium: Lizardfolk are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Normal Speed: Lizardfolk have a base speed of 30 feet.
• Swimming: Lizardfolk have a swim speed of 15 feet. A lizardfolk has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A lizardfolk can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. A lizardfolk can use the run action while swimming, provided he swims in a straight line.
• Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution score before it risks drowning.
• Natural Weapons: Lizardfolk possess two claw natural attacks that inflicts 1d4 points of damage on a hit. This is a primary attack, or a secondary attack if the lizardfolk wields a manufactured weapon.
• Well-Balanced: Lizardfolk receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks.
• Languages: Lizardfolk begin play speaking Draconic. Lizardfolk with high Intelligence can choose bonus languages from the following: Aklo, Aquan, Common, Giant, Goblin, or Orc.
Ability scores are usually for a net +2 in PFRPG; it should probably have +2 to a mental stat, I suggest Wisdom.
They also really should have common as a base language in addition to draconic.There's a useful guide [url=http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/houseRules/pFRaceBuildingGuide]here[/uro] for race building. The race as now written would have the following points:
No mental stat bonus: -2 points
Swim speed: 3 points (4 points is up to 50ft, so 3 points seems fair as they still gain a phat swim bonus)
Hold breath: 1 point
Natural attacks: 4 points
Well-balanced: 2 points
Total: 8 points.
Hardened Scales
Prerequisite: Character level 1st, lizardfolk.
Benefit: You gain a +2 natural armor bonus to your Armor Class.Monstrous Strength
Prerequisite: Character level 7th, lizardfolk.
Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to your Strength score.
These feats are too strong I think, even though the race is kind of weak to begin with. Both are far stronger than any other feats. Reduce the first to a +1 to armor class and it might be fine, but the second really should have some kind of bad feat prerequisite or other limitation. Maybe only grant a +1 on strength (and str-skill) checks and +1 to damage?
Nice start, but giving them a +1 to natural armor might bring them up to par.
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I think this is one of those races that will not be true to what it is if made exactly balanced with the core races. They are notably stronger than a standard race.
I see them more like this:
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+2 strength +2 constitution +2 wisdom -2 intelligence -2 Charisma
+4 on acrobatics
Swim speed of 30
2 claw attacks (1d4+ strength bonus x2)and a bite at -5 (1d4+half strength bonus)
Darkvision
+5 Natural Armor
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They can be watered down to match the base races, but then they aren't really lizardfolk. This becomes more like the Dark Elves, much stronger and a GM discretion to add to a campaign. I would allow them like this if the campaign was able to support them as reptilians.
I think the feats are designed to make the character pay something if he wants the bit and the NA, rather than to be "balanced" against other feats- especially since only they can take them.
Personally I like it. a melee based one can take either but a magic oriented one could skip the bite entirely, leading to a good variety in the race. (rather than getting claw/claw/bite and being just flat out better in melee than anyone else, heh).
Looks good :)
-S
These feats are too strong I think, even though the race is kind of weak to begin with. Both are far stronger than any other feats. Reduce the first to a +1 to armor class and it might be fine, but the second really should have some kind of bad feat prerequisite or other limitation. Maybe only grant a +1 on strength (and str-skill) checks and +1 to damage?
I would agree with you that the feats I have proposed are more viable than most feats. The reason for this though is twofold; it allows the option for a player to play as lizardfolk beginning at 1st level, without being overpowered compared to elves and dwarves, and yet allow them to "buy back" some of their abilities by spending feats. The idea being that a player playing a lizardfolk character could potentially choose to pause advancement along a feat progression, like Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack, etc.), or any one of the class ability-specific feats, such as the "Extra" feats (Extra Rage, Extra Lay on Hands, etc.), in order to pick up some of their race abilities.
As for a +2 to Wisdom, I see how this makes them on par with the core races but I have my misgivings about that as well. The bonuses to Swim and Acrobatics, along with natural attacks and hold breath make up for the fact that they are missing out on a extra ability score bonus. Also, I am pretty hesitant about the idea of the "+2, +2, -2" spread in general. The inclusion of the additional bonus was to give the core races a boost and, I am unsure of where I read this, but one of the design goals of the Pathfinder RPG was to make the core rules optimal since the material in the core books in 3.5 was made sub-par by a lot of what was written afterwards. Giving every race similar abilities does not hold to this goal, at least in most cases, this being one of them. This is especially true after giving them a +1 natural AC, as some of proposed.
Nice start, but giving them a +1 to natural armor might bring them up to par.
That is a second affirmative. If I could edit the first post I would certainly change it, but I agree with the +1 natural AC starting out.
The question though is, what about Hardened Scales as a feat? Should the level requirement be higher? How should it be changed?
They can be watered down to match the base races, but then they aren't really lizardfolk. This becomes more like the Dark Elves, much stronger and a GM discretion to add to a campaign. I would allow them like this if the campaign was able to support them as reptilians.
I see what you are saying but I disagree. Yes, a common drow does not have all the abilities as a noble drow, but they are still both drow. Mechanically, one is clearly more powerful than the other but everything thematically (subterranean evil elves) remains the same.
how about this:
Humanoid(Reptilian)
Medium-sized
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution or Dexterity, -2 Intelligence
Low-Light Vision
Speed 30 feet, Swimming/Climbing 20 feet
+2 to Acrobatics and Swim/Climb
Hold Breath
+2 Natural Armor
2 Claws(1d4+Str) and Bite(1d4+1/2Str)
what do you think, too powerful?
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Too focused on the physical for my taste. I think player races shouldn't 1) be good only at a handful of classes, so that you'd never seriously consider any other classes when playing that race
2) be so good for a particular class that all other races become obsolete for that class.
This one falls into category 2, it's ridiculously good for melee characters, especially rogues. Three natural weapons to Sneak Attack with, more movement modes, AC, and physical bonuses, while adding a mild penalty to skill point, of which you have plenty?
Keeping in mind I use a modified version of the Racial Acceptance Rules from the Dragonlance bestiary (3.5) with base levels of "racial tolerance," Toad Companion's version of Lizardfolk is not too disimilar from mine:
Senses Low-light vision (1 RP)
Size Medium.
Speed Lizardfolk base speed is 30 feet.
Natural Armor (2 RP) Lizardfolk gain a +1 natural armor bonus.
Climb (2 RP) Lizardfolk have a climb speed of 20 ft., and gain the +8 racial bonus on Climb checks that a climb speed normally grants.
Bite (2 RP) Lizardfolk gain a natural bite attack, dealing damage equivalent 1d4 piercing, in addition to their venom. The bite is a primary attack, or a secondary attack if the creature is wielding manufactured weapons.
Toxic (1 RP) A number of times per day equal to the lizardfolk's Constitution modifier (minimum 1/day), he can envenom a weapon that he wields with his toxic saliva or blood (using blood requires the lizardfolk to be injured when he uses this ability).
Applying venom in this way is a swift action.
Venom: Injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Constitution modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Dex; cure 1 save.
Automatic Language Common, Slyvian.
I have 8 players and despite this variety of people with different preferences, this race has only seen use as NPCs. The "bigotry" aspect of the Acceptance rules I use isn't too harsh, either. Not really sure why my players don't like them, unless it's for purely aesthetic reasons.
Too focused on the physical for my taste. I think player races shouldn't 1) be good only at a handful of classes, so that you'd never seriously consider any other classes when playing that race
2) be so good for a particular class that all other races become obsolete for that class.
While there are definitely better options for caster classes, I'd probably rate this (Toad's version, on a good/average/poor scale) as:
Melee: Good
Caster (Divine): Average
Caster (Arcane - Spontaneous): Average
Caster (Arcane - Prepared): Poor
I don't think I've ever had a player select a race with a penalty relevant to their class' primary ability score. In essence, his version isn't really viable for wizards, witches, alchemists, and magus. It is, however, viable for 15 out of the 19 core and base classes. It's just not optimal for all.
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I have 8 players and despite this variety of people with different preferences, this race has only seen use as NPCs. The "bigotry" aspect of the Acceptance rules I use isn't too harsh, either. Not really sure why my players don't like them, unless it's for purely aesthetic reasons.
All I ever see my group playing is humans, half-elves, some form of full-blooded elf, or humanoid that looks INCREDIBLY close to either of these choices. If it doesn't fall within this category, they don't want to touch it. And any character they make *must* be attractive.
All I ever see my group playing is humans, half-elves, some form of full-blooded elf, or humanoid that looks INCREDIBLY close to either of these choices. If it doesn't fall within this category, they don't want to touch it. And any character they make *must* be attractive.
Exactly. I think both our player groups invest a bit of themselves in their characters (i.e. see them as some extension of themselves, idealized or otherwise). I've had a half-orc played by one of my female players, but she was a "pretty" half orc, so there you go, lol.
Edit: I've got over 30 race options for my campaign, as well. They run from human-like (catfolk, tieflings, elves) to the "insect/reptilian" aberration Anasi (one of which was actually played, now that I think about it).
remember one important thing, a human can technically get any racial feat (for one race) so determining feat strength is very important.
Too focused on the physical for my taste. I think player races shouldn't 1) be good only at a handful of classes, so that you'd never seriously consider any other classes when playing that race
2) be so good for a particular class that all other races become obsolete for that class.This one falls into category 2, it's ridiculously good for melee characters, especially rogues. Three natural weapons to Sneak Attack with, more movement modes, AC, and physical bonuses, while adding a mild penalty to skill point, of which you have plenty?
ok, then let's have only one natural weapon(bite or claws?) and only a +1 on Natural Armor.
anyway, for 'Climbing/Swimming' i meant Climbing OR Swimming speed.