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I'm running a PFRPG Curse game, and I'm taking advantage of the fact that EXP isn't a spendable resource anymore to obviate it altogether, and just tell my players to level up when they reach a narratively appropriate point. Obviously, the first such point is after clearing the fishery. Where would you place the ones past that?
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The way to go about this is by deciding what level you want the party to be by the beginning of each module, which will vary depending on the composition and number of characters in your party. You want the combats to be challenging, but not overly so.
In my case, with four reasonably balanced characters, I feel like the following progression is appropriate.
START Edge of Anarchy level 1.
#1 - after the fishery
#2 - after Eel's End
#3 - after recovering Ghaeken's body.
START 7 Days to the Grave level 4
#1 - after Lavender
#2 - after the Direption
#3 - after the Hospice, before the Temple of Urgathoa
START Escape from Old Korvosa level 7
#1 - after initial investigations
#2 - after Pilts Swastel
#3 - after the Vivid Labyrinth
START History of Ashes level 10
#1 - after Cindermaw
#2 - after trials of the Sun Tribe
START Skeletons of Scarwall level 12
#1 - after defeating the steward
#2 - after recovering the maguffin
START Crown of Fangs Level 14
#1 - before entering Castle Korvosa
#2 - after Castle Korvosa
That has them ending the campaign at level 16.
Hmm, sounds good for the most part. I might want to stick one more level up point somewhere in there, so they reach 17 just before taking on the Queen.
Hmm, sounds good for the most part. I might want to stick one more level up point somewhere in there, so they reach 17 just before taking on the Queen.
The game is still supposed to run from 1st to 17th level, but they don't really need that 17th level until the End Boss anyway, so sticking in a level up point right before the Queen isn't a bad call. Just let them know that they really don't want to go through that door/hole/however you get there without being fully prepared first.
I find in these APs, PCs are forced to level up far too fast for what they've accomplished.
For example, take the Fishery. The Fishery, if it were a Pathfinder Society scenario, would be worth 1/3 of a level, whereas we've identified it as a point where the PCs are supposed to gain an entire level.
Wow, just wow. Compared to PFOS, you level at 3 times the rate.
On the bright side, it leaves space for DMs to add their own side adventures. On the negative side, it can force the DM to hand wave a lot of XP (you do 2 weeks of guard duty, gain a level), which doesn't feel right.
For me, after Edge of Anarchy, the PCs should be level 3, not level 4, yet the AP demands a faster, almost breakneck, pace.
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I find in these APs, PCs are forced to level up far too fast for what they've accomplished.
For example, take the Fishery. The Fishery, if it were a Pathfinder Society scenario, would be worth 1/3 of a level, whereas we've identified it as a point where the PCs are supposed to gain an entire level.
Wow, just wow. Compared to PFOS, you level at 3 times the rate.
On the bright side, it leaves space for DMs to add their own side adventures. On the negative side, it can force the DM to hand wave a lot of XP (you do 2 weeks of guard duty, gain a level), which doesn't feel right.
For me, after Edge of Anarchy, the PCs should be level 3, not level 4, yet the AP demands a faster, almost breakneck, pace.
I am running this AP using PFRPG (started under BETA) and for the entire time I have used the Fast XP track. This was a suggestion given by one of the Paizo staffers somewhere here on the messageboards for using any of the designed for 3.5 AP’s in PFRPG.
My players’ characters have started each chapter of the AP, so far, at the appropriate level. Right now they are in History of Ashes and on track to start Skeletons of Scarwall at 12th level.
I wanted to run a sidequest between Escape and History using the Module Seven Swords of Sin. To keep them on the correct track for levels I had to not give them any XP for that module. Yes this has skewed the Wealth per Level scale but I can compensate for that.
PFS, while a worthwhile system in its own right, is not a benchmark to judge AP’s or Modules on. It is its own thing. It has its own standards and expectations that just don’t apply to most Modules and APs.
Having just finished CoCT, it repeatedly felt "too fast" when leveling. I never had time to figure out my character at this level before I was getting a next one. Note that I object to levelling, but it didn't feel commensurate with the effort my character was putting in.
My group leveled at the end of Ch2, then next level was after the battle with Pilts in Ch3.
My group leveled at the end of Ch2, then next level was after the battle with Pilts in Ch3.
Caro,
Did you use have your players level based on xp or did you just tell them to level at certain points in the story? If you did use xp which leveling pace did you use?
We had started out with the fast xp track (it is closest to the original 3.5 progression). They seemed to have been leveling at the right points in the story. We did that up through Chapter 2.
Then, based on some group discussions, we moved all our games over to leveling at certain points in the story. It seemed to work well and it kept us from killing everything for xp. We initiated that at the start of Chapter 3 and it seems to be working well. I still have the 'anticipated' xp progression if they were earning it, and am kinda using that to gauge when to level them up as well as where it makes sense in the story.
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I actually started out leveling everyone based on the plot line but switched to the fast xp track for a couple of reasons. 1) I found that it is easier to keep teack of levels easier this way and It gives players incentive to show up every week due to the fact that when players dont show up, they lose out. I still keep a minimum level for charcters that bounce in and out because I dont want 2nd level characters.goin g into a CR 15 encounter. I feel this helps maintain a party balance whilr awarding those who show up to games while not punishing those that dont to severely. 2) I also award bonus xp to characters accomplish impressive acts of heroism, cleverness, and daring. I think this provides players with mor incentive to roleplay their characters to accomplish truely heroic deeds. to me, thats what pathfinder is all about. right now my grouo is about to head into book 3 and most of them are 6th level. there is 1 or 2 that are 5 but should be 6th by the time I actually start the 3rd book. Im ok with this because there are about 6 players for this campaign so the APL is actually a bit higher than 6th. anyway i guess what i am tryong to say is that you have to tailor your levelibg system to the AP and your style of play. (sorry for any grammatical errors. typing on my phone is not easy.
I use the "fast track" xp table and I'm dead on with the level up points above. (starting Escape from Old Korvosa this weekend)
When the party gets an xp award, I usually put 25% of the xp gained in a side pot and distribute the rest equally among the participating PCs (that's all the PCs unless I'm doing a solo adventure or something).
Throughout the game, I allocate "good play" points. I start with one for everyone present, then give a few more during the game for good ideas, good role-playing, and even for getting an extremely high critical hit damage count.
At the end, I'll ask every player to vote for another player on the basis of who was most useful during the game. Each vote giving one "good play" point.
Then I devide the xp side pot into as many shares as there are "good play" points and distribute the shares to the players with the points (so you at least get one share just for showing up).
The result is having my players pushing themselves at being productive during play, and it gives the xp totals a slight difference between characters (instead of having all four of my players at the exact same xp total).
And sometimes, the characters don't go up a level until I distribute those final "good play" shares at the end of the game.
This system works very well for us.
Ultradan
I started with the fast xp track and switched to thematicaly appropriate after the 3rd chapter. I had 7 players so I very stingy with levels.
