Noob questions.


Rules Questions


My last real campaign was back when 2nd edition was new. I'm really an old AD&D player at heart, but I haven't played that in decades. I'm very excited to find Pathfinder and looking forward to running a campaign (all my other players are my kids and their friends, all who have no experience, so I am the default GM) Being GM is no real problem, it an old shoe and it still fits, but I find that without an experienced player in house to ask quick questions I get stuck on really simple things. so with that in mind...

Does 'class skill' mean that I get a free rank 1 in that skill, or do I still have to spend a point?
table 4-1 says I get X + int modifier per level. Does that include first level?

So for example: lvl 1 barbarian INT 10 would get rank one in the 10 class skills and still have 4 points left to spend as desired?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Bargeral wrote:

My last real campaign was back when 2nd edition was new. I'm really an old AD&D player at heart, but I haven't played that in decades. I'm very excited to find Pathfinder and looking forward to running a campaign (all my other players are my kids and their friends, all who have no experience, so I am the default GM) Being GM is no real problem, it an old shoe and it still fits, but I find that without an experienced player in house to ask quick questions I get stuck on really simple things. so with that in mind...

Does 'class skill' mean that I get a free rank 1 in that skill, or do I still have to spend a point?
table 4-1 says I get X + int modifier per level. Does that include first level?

So for example: lvl 1 barbarian INT 10 would get rank one in the 10 class skills and still have 4 points left to spend as desired?

Afraid not.

Class skill means that, when you pout a point in it, you get a +3 bonus to the rolls for that skill. But you have to put a point in it first.

And it's int modifier, not Int score so your Barbarian with Int 10 (mod 0) has only got his class skill points to spend (+1 if he's human). It does apply to first level.

You could also get more skill points my using the Favoured Clas smechanic which gives you either 1 extra hit point or 1 extra skill point per level, if you take that level in your favoured class, e.g. Barbarian. Multicalssing would lose some of that benefit.


Thanks. That makes sense. I was confuzzled.


I think that wolfslair's herolab has a demo version that can help as far as building characters, for new players. i dont think you can save or print with the free version but it helps with adding mods and keeping track of which feats your character can qualify for etc. i dont work for them, i just use the program.


Barbarians taking extra skill points? I'll believe it when I see it. :-P


Skills had a major overhaul in 3e, and then again a (not quite as) major one in Pathfinder.

The class skill thing (the +3), is a really nice bonus, but the difference between class skill and cross-class skill used to be much more pronounced:

Back in 3e, you could get up to (level + 3) ranks in a class skill, but only half as much in a cross-class skill. Buying a rank would cost one skill point for class skills, and two for cross-class skills.

So you could put your 4 points into a class skill or a cross-class skill, getting 4 or 2 ranks out of it, respectively (which was the maximum).

Back in those days, you'd get x4 skill points on level one (which mean that if you were to multiclass, you'd always start with the class that got the most skill points, because you'd get x4 that).

And here comes the fun part: If you multiclassed and the new class had a skill as class skill that had been cross-class to you up to now, you could now have up to (level +3) ranks in it. And if you bought the ranks in the new class, you'd pay 1 point per rank. But if you then went back to your old class (it was common to alternate between classes to have, say, a balanced fighter/rogue), you'd have to pay 2 points per rank again, because it was a cross-class skill for that class (you could still sink extra points into it and go all the way up to level +3.

Pathfinder makes all that a lot easier: You can put as many ranks into a skill as you have levels - 1 rank on character level 1, 5 on level 5, and so on. They always cost one skill point, no matter whether they're class or cross-class.

But if one of the classes you have has the skill as a cross-skill, and you have at least 1 rank in it, you'd have it as class skill, getting that +3.

In effect, it's the same numbers as in 3e for class skills(the +3 on maximal ranks, and the x4 on 1st level are replaced by the +3 class skill bonus), but it's a lot easier now to be good in cross-class stuff (no more half ranks - you just "lose" the +3). And multiclassing is so much easier now, especially if you generate a multiclassed character on higher level (because you enter a campaign late, change your character, or are the GM and create NPCs), as you won't have to juggle the different skill rank costs any more.


skrahen wrote:
I think that wolfslair's herolab has a demo version that can help as far as building characters, for new players. i dont think you can save or print with the free version but it helps with adding mods and keeping track of which feats your character can qualify for etc. i dont work for them, i just use the program.

Great idea, thanks. I found a few things I had done wrong or forgot by comparing my half-orc Barbarian to results of herolab. I'm not sure that it's worth 30 buck plus more for add-ons.


A newer member of our group (also newer to 3.0/5/ph D&D) purchased Hero Lab and likes it a lot, but it doesn't cover everything, just the more basic addition and rules. It is a great utility, but not a rules compendium.


Stubs McKenzie wrote:
A newer member of our group (also newer to 3.0/5/ph D&D) purchased Hero Lab and likes it a lot, but it doesn't cover everything, just the more basic addition and rules. It is a great utility, but not a rules compendium.

it is a tool for character creation and maintenance, if thats what you mean by not covering everything. the developers spend a decent amount of time on these boards and updating the software. also if you are comfortable with such things there is a powerful editor built in to customize whatever features you want, adjust for house rules, create new spells and magic items, etc. i love it. but i like spending lots of time messing with characters, and i use it to keep track of my npcs.


Skrahen wrote:
it is a tool for character creation and maintenance, if thats what you mean by not covering everything. the developers spend a decent amount of time on these boards and updating the software. also if you are comfortable with such things there is a powerful editor built in to customize whatever features you want, adjust for house rules, create new spells and magic items, etc. i love it. but i like spending lots of time messing with characters, and i use it to keep track of my npcs.

Yes, exactly. For an experienced player it can be a huge boon (as I understand the software, haven't used it myself) for keeping track of lots of different non permanent effects/spells while they happen, but for a new player to the current system most of the extras probably won't be utilized for a while, though it is, as always, up to the player.

Dark Archive

Bargeral wrote:


Great idea, thanks. I found a few things I had done wrong or forgot by comparing my half-orc Barbarian to results of herolab. I'm not sure that it's worth 30 buck plus more for add-ons.

When you purchase the license you get a product of your choice that comes with it so you don't have to worry about buying the product and then more for the pathfinder core material, that comes free if you do it right. The APG however is a separate purchase but it is cheap and if that doesn't even work out for you there are free options online at various places that convert all the info into easy to install packages that are the same thing, it just takes a little bit of footwork.

That being said... I love herolabs, both as a player and a DM, I use it more for NPC tracking and building on my side of the table but it is a GREAT tool. I think it is worth every penny.


I have a noob question. I have been gaming for a long time now, but I am a little confused on the new combat round for Pathfinder and 3.5. How many actions can I take? Is it true that I can only take a 5-foot step and a standard action? Can I make a full move and an attack? Half-move?

Dark Archive

Leigh Schroyer 472 wrote:
I have a noob question. I have been gaming for a long time now, but I am a little confused on the new combat round for Pathfinder and 3.5. How many actions can I take? Is it true that I can only take a 5-foot step and a standard action? Can I make a full move and an attack? Half-move?

No, I dunno where you heard that from.

During your turn you have 1 move, and 1 standard action.
There are also full-attacks, which are full-round-actions, which only allow you your 5 foot step. This probably where you got confused.

Free actions can be done at any time during your turn, usually during, before, or after any other action.

There are also swift actions which can be performed like a free action but you can only perform 1 swift action a turn.

Immediate actions interrupt the regular flow of combat and can be taken any time even on another creatures turn.


Leigh Schroyer 472 wrote:
I have a noob question. I have been gaming for a long time now, but I am a little confused on the new combat round for Pathfinder and 3.5. How many actions can I take? Is it true that I can only take a 5-foot step and a standard action? Can I make a full move and an attack? Half-move?

In one round you can take one:

Standard;
Move;
No-Move (or free 5ft. step) - if you don't actually move in your round);
Free;
Swift;
Immediate action.

In surprise round you can take one:

Standard; or
Move; and
Free;
Swift;
Immediate action.

Just to elaborate, if you take a full-attack action that's your Standard + Move action.


Carbon D. Metric wrote:
Bargeral wrote:


Great idea, thanks. I found a few things I had done wrong or forgot by comparing my half-orc Barbarian to results of herolab. I'm not sure that it's worth 30 buck plus more for add-ons.

When you purchase the license you get a product of your choice that comes with it so you don't have to worry about buying the product and then more for the pathfinder core material, that comes free if you do it right. The APG however is a separate purchase but it is cheap and if that doesn't even work out for you there are free options online at various places that convert all the info into easy to install packages that are the same thing, it just takes a little bit of footwork.

That being said... I love herolabs, both as a player and a DM, I use it more for NPC tracking and building on my side of the table but it is a GREAT tool. I think it is worth every penny.

I found a couple of tools called PCGen and Heroforge respectivly. Both are free, however Heroforge doesn't currently support pathfinder, just 3.5 rules. PCGen does what I need, which is a rules check on my understanding of how to build a character. It's not as graceful as herolab is, some of the dialogs are hard to follow - took me over half an hour to figure where to select my favored class. But still it works and is free.

herolabs is cool and I'll keep it on my drive and poke around from time to time. At this point the only thing I've purchased is the core rulebook, if I spend anymore money it will be on modules or the Bestiary first.

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