Arcane Blast and Spell Resistance


Rules Questions


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hi Friends,

Picked up the Advanced Players guide and created a Summoner for a game I am in. We went up against a young Red Dragon and I converted a 4th level spell to an Arcane blast per the feat. The Dragon had SR, but the description of the feat for Arcane Blast does not state what the AB is and whether it is subject to SR or it it ignores it.

Any thoughts on this, I cannot find any official notice about this question.

Thank you.


Have not got ahold of the APG yet so might offer an opinion if I saw the wording of the feat, other wise I am just left wondering what the arcane blast feat does!


There are two ways to take it:
It has the same SR as the spell converted.
Or it just has no SR applicable.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Seeing as the feat is based on the v3.5 Archmage's ability of the same name, it is most likely intended to be a supernatural ability and as such bypasses spell resistance (since the original ability was supernatural).

As written, however, it is an extraordinary ability (and as such still ignores spell resistance) since feats not stating otherwise are considered extraordinary (or so I've heard).


Dasen wrote:

We went up against a young Red Dragon and I converted a 4th level spell to an Arcane blast per the feat. The Dragon had SR, but the description of the feat for Arcane Blast does not state what the AB is and whether it is subject to SR or it it ignores it.

You burned a 4th level spell slot and used a feat to deal 5d6 damage as a ranged touch attack...

I don't see anything wrong with this being SU. It clearly isn't spell-like as its not like any spell. Doesn't seem to fit right as an EX, though mechanically it might default to that (I'm not aware of such rules in that regard mind you).

And it's far from over-powered, so let it be.

-James


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's a low damage attack form to be sure, but the real benefit comes into play when you realize that it bypasses spell resistance, energy immunity, damage reduction, and other defenses, AND it doesn't even allow for a save.

In other words, if you can make the touch attack, you are going ot hurt something.

The fact that you can prepare a bunch of battlefield control/buff/utility spells and drop them for damage at a whim is also pretty neat.

Grand Lodge

Currently as written, it's an EX ability...which means you can do this do this in an AMF. Which is all sorts of stupid.... With some play testing done, I'm starting to have some sever issues with the APG as written.

Grand Lodge

Cold Napalm wrote:
I'm starting to have some sever issues with the APG as written.

Really? How much are you cutting off?

Grand Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
I'm starting to have some sever issues with the APG as written.
Really? How much are you cutting off?

we're not cutting anything off yet. We're still play testing it to see what the limits are. Selective spell is REALLY disruptive when used right. Counterspell mastery is surprisingly good. I didn't think an immediate action counterspell option 1-4 times per day would have such an impact on encounters. The pit spell line become a have fly or die (mostly). Which for players isn't too much an issue as every decent player has fly options by mid levels...but for monsters, even if they make their reflex save, as soon as they get bullrushed in, it's over unless they can fly or have high climb skill or a climb speed. Dazing spell meta rods + sound burst is pretty brutal as well...pass two rolls or lose your action in an area(Selectived to avoid allies of coure). Calcific touch is also pretty butch. 1d4 dex damage per creature per round as a touch attack. It's a prime canidate for meta magicing up. Works best with EK builds as pure wizards in touch range is bad. The falcata...19-20/X3 weapons...I though we were clear that this is a BAD idea back in 3.0. Fighter TWF with these using the TWF alternate class abilities becomes kinda scary at damage...especially after level 11. Sirocco is also somewhat abusive as it's an automatic fatigue and an exhausted on a failed save...in a rather large area...with a duration (and another prime selective spell canidate). That's what comes to mind right now anyways.


Ravingdork wrote:
As written, however, it is an extraordinary ability (and as such still ignores spell resistance) since feats not stating otherwise are considered extraordinary (or so I've heard).

I keep hearing this rule. For the life of me, I cannot recall ever seeing it in a book. If anyone has a reference page for feats defaulting to (Ex), please post it.

If that's the case, that's the case with this feat I suppose. Personally, I'd run it as either (Su) or (Sp). There's no reason that arcane energy should function in an anti-magic field, and it should probably provoke an attack of opportunity, which makes me lean towards (Sp).

The fact that there isn't a spell called Arcane Blast only makes me hesitate a little. If it's a different kind of ability, it's the most spell-like extraordinary or supernatural ability out there. It even uses a spell slot.


Dirlaise wrote:


The fact that there isn't a spell called Arcane Blast only makes me hesitate a little. If it's a different kind of ability, it's the most spell-like extraordinary or supernatural ability out there. It even uses a spell slot.

Nah that would be dragon's breath or perhaps change shape abilities, as there are direct spells that these mimic, but they're clearly SU (and predate the spells that they 'copy').

As there isn't a spell that it copies, it can't really be spell like without expressly saying it. I'd go with SU as that seems to be what it should be.

-James


Dirlaise wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
As written, however, it is an extraordinary ability (and as such still ignores spell resistance) since feats not stating otherwise are considered extraordinary (or so I've heard).

I keep hearing this rule. For the life of me, I cannot recall ever seeing it in a book. If anyone has a reference page for feats defaulting to (Ex), please post it.

If that's the case, that's the case with this feat I suppose. Personally, I'd run it as either (Su) or (Sp). There's no reason that arcane energy should function in an anti-magic field, and it should probably provoke an attack of opportunity, which makes me lean towards (Sp).

The fact that there isn't a spell called Arcane Blast only makes me hesitate a little. If it's a different kind of ability, it's the most spell-like extraordinary or supernatural ability out there. It even uses a spell slot.

I think it was a 3.5 thing, but since it is magical energy I think I will rule it as SU for my games. I also think that was the intent. I don't know if Piazo has EX as the default or not.

From an immersion pov I can't see any amount of natural skill allowing someone to throw energy across a room. It would take some nice fluff to convince me it was not magical in nature.

After going to do some checking:
Exceptional Abilities (Ex): Exceptional abilities are unusual abilities that do not rely on magic to function.

Since this ability relies on magic I think it means it can not be Ex. It does not have a caster level so it can be a spell or SLA. That only leaves SU.

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.

PS: This idea of not labeling things needs to get fixed. I understand most of us old-timers(3.5ers) can figure most of this out, but those that are newer have more issues with it.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
I'm starting to have some sever issues with the APG as written.
Really? How much are you cutting off?

Whoosh....right over the head, eh TOZ?

Grand Lodge

Can'tFindthePath wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Cold Napalm wrote:
I'm starting to have some sever issues with the APG as written.
Really? How much are you cutting off?
Whoosh....right over the head, eh TOZ?

Well, at least someone got it. :)

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