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I posted this in a thread earlier but no one responded at the time. Just thought this would concern other players as well...
I'm a new GM, and the rule I have applied so far is that characters can Take 10 if they are not distracted. I have applied this to a wide array of skills. But the following bard class traits make Taking 10 sound like the exception instead of the rule:
As a new GM, I have allowed players to use Take 10 on a wide variety of skills, so long as they don't feel threatened or distracted. But the following bard abilities from the Core Rulebook and the APG made it sound like certain skills generally don't allow for characters to Take 10...
Quoting from the Core Rulebook, p. 38:
Lore Master: At 5th level, the bard becomes a master of lore and can take 10 on any Knowledge skill check that he has ranks in.
From the Advanced Player's Guide:
ARCHIVIST (p. 81)
Magic Lore: At 2nd level, an archivist gains a bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify magic items or decipher scrolls and may take 10 on such checks...STREET PERFORMER (APG p. 85)
Quick Change: At 5th level, a street performer... can take 10 on Bluff or Disguise checks...
So, if the bard can acquire these abilities, does that mean no one else can take 10 on these skills?
Thanks in advance!
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Certain skills can not be taken 10 on... especially ones in which the die roll is to be hidden from the player. A disguise check is generally rolled against the sense motive or other skill when it's applicable so in ordinary circumstances you can't "take 10" on it, and Bluff checks are always stress rolls in usual circumstances as you generally won't have a take 10 option on that as well.
A player cannot take 10 (if I understand correctly) on any opposed check, or any time there is a penalty for failure, or if he is distracted (as in combat - I would be distracted if a monster were attempting to kill me), or if the GM rolls secretly.
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Bluff checks are always stress rolls in usual circumstances as you generally won't have a take 10 option on that as well.
This I agree with.
A disguise check is generally rolled against the sense motive or other skill when it's applicable so in ordinary circumstances you can't "take 10" on it
I've seen this rule articulated by other posters, but I'm not sure I would automatically rule out Taking 10 simply because it's an opposed check. There is still an element of chance involved because of the opposing die roll and the player not knowing what modifiers the enemy has.
In the case of a player trying to detect if an NPC is lying, her character might not be stressed and I would allow her to Take 10. It then becomes a tactical consideration whether she wants to risk a low roll versus a higher roll (which I might possibly reward with more information than simply "he is telling the truth", such as "he's lying but with a good amount of guilt").
One might argue this invites metagaming, but in this particular case I don't think my players mind. In the end it's up to the GM. Personally, I hate having to do opposed rolls when they come up. ;) Always puts things on hold a little longer during the game. :)
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A player cannot take 10 (if I understand correctly) ... any time there is a penalty for failure...
I think the "chance for failure" only applies with Taking 20, because a character is theoretically attempting the skill 20 times and it's to avoid players getting around that fact. However, Taking 10 is a single attempt, and so the player doesn't avoid the penalty for failure (e.g. a trap being activated) if he should fail. If the penalty for failure is a negative modifier for subsequent checks, then yeah he can roll on Attempt #2 with that penalty applying.
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Right, Taking 10 doesn't worry about the chance for failure. It's there so we don't worry about people having to do routine things like climbing up a ladder outside of combat or other simple tasks.
Taking 20 is the hammer at it until you succeed method that can't be done on things where you have a chance for failure since you fail a number of times before doing your best.
One thing to keep in mind is that you CANNOT make an untrained check on anything with a DC higher then 10 for Knowledge skills. Bards gain the ability to take make these checks even if untrained. Not that knowledge checks also do not allow a retry if the first roll is failed.
Personally I am of the opinion that you could not take 10 on knowledge checks. (There is not a specific rule for that I can find however.) But the idea that all player characters can call to mind at any time the name of a basic tree, famous noble, or song they just heard the bard hum is a bit much. If the DC is easy then they have a good chance to make the roll. If it is not, then the name is on the tip of the tongue... but just out of reach.
on a side note - There is also a nice feat for some races older then 100 years in the APG called Breadth of Experience. All knowledge checks get a +2 and can be made untrained.