The following is a perfect example of why my GM hates me sometimes:
(The two feats and trait primarily in question)
Preferred Spell
You find it very easy to cast one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 5 ranks, Heighten Spell.
Benefit: Choose one spell which you have the ability to
cast. You can cast that spell spontaneously by sacrificing
a prepared spell or spell slot of equal or higher level. You
can apply any metamagic feats you possess to this spell
when you cast it. This increases the minimum level of the
prepared spell or spell slot you must sacrifice in order to
cast it but does not affect the casting time.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its
effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies
to a different spell.
Spell Perfection
You are unequaled at the casting of one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, at least three
metamagic feats.
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to
cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one
metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its
level or casting time, as long as the total modified level
of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In
addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply
a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as
Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so
on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to
this spell.
Magical Lineage: One of your parents was a gifted
spellcaster who not only used metamagic often, but also
developed many magical items and perhaps even a new
spell or two—and you have inherited a fragment of this
greatness. Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When
you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level
as 1 lower for determining the spell’s final adjusted level.
1. Okay, first of all, if using all three with Fireball, for example, can you spontaneously cast a Quickened, Intensified, Empowered Fireball by sacrificing a 5th level slot? (3-1+2+1, then +4 through Spell Perfection)
Random: Sure, you can always go Fireball, but what spell would you focus on?
2. Blargh, here's the really obnoxious one if it actually works: Can you heighten your Magical Lineage Spell and use that to qualify for a Prestige Class earlier? (Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge, etc)
3. I posed this question elsewhere, still hoping there's an official answer: Can you use Merciful Spell + Magical Lineage to cast Fireball as a 2nd level spell?
I would rule against any of these metamagic abuses, (other than the 1st, I suppose? Not really an abuse so much as convenient stacking of abilities.) but I was curious if merely misinterpreted rules somewhere, thus creating a combo that doesn't actually work.
1. Yes. The modified spell level is 9, so that works fine. I could see some DMs ruling that Magical Lineage should not be taken into account when determining if Spell Perfection can be used though.
2. No. What you are able to cast through the use of metamagic feats does not matter when determining if you can qualify for a prestige class. The requirements should be continuous, not one-shot. Just like a Barbarian can't say "oh, but when I rage my STR/CON is higher, so I should be able to qualify for that feat/prestige class that requires higher STR/CON than I normally have".
3. In theory, yes. I personally believe Magical Lineage should include some kind of text to state it can't reduce a metamagic feat's cost to less than 0 (or reduce the spell's adjusted level to less than the spell's normal level), and I will also rule that way in my games. By the actual Rules As Written, however, it works.
1. Yes. The modified spell level is 9, so that works fine. I could see some DMs ruling that Magical Lineage should not be taken into account when determining if Spell Perfection can be used though.
2. No. What you are able to cast through the use of metamagic feats does not matter when determining if you can qualify for a prestige class. The requirements should be continuous, not one-shot. Just like a Barbarian can't say "oh, but when I rage my STR/CON is higher, so I should be able to qualify for that feat/prestige class that requires higher STR/CON than I normally have".
3. In theory, yes. I personally believe Magical Lineage should include some kind of text to state it can't reduce a metamagic feat's cost to less than 0 (or reduce the spell's adjusted level to less than the spell's normal level), and I will also rule that way in my games. By the actual Rules As Written, however, it works.
I'm completely inclined to agree with your point on question number 2. If it's not actually spelled out in the rules, it should be. ...and apparently they have to spell it out, lest munchkins worldwide find a "loophole."
...that's what through me off with question 3. As opposed to #2, which was stretching it by a bit, the way Magical Lineage is worded leaves you with the thought that you actual could use it to reduce the spell. It just says if you applied a metamagic. It didn't say anything about it having to increase the level.
...however, by inference, we can be sure that's not how it was meant to be interpreted. I think a perhaps worse abuse than say, a Merciful Time Stop as an 8th level spell, would be Merciful Mount/Merciful Cure Light Wounds/etc. Turning a 1st level spell into a cantrip could be quite something. Unlimited healing? Summon a horse once every six seconds? Abuses would abound.
*slightly random* Didn't want to start a new topic. ^^;
This is by no means optimal, but I was just trying to think of ways to make one spell REALLY good. Much of it to do with Spell Perfection. (particularly the doubling)
My questions:
1. Does Elemental Focus stack with Spell Focus?
2. What are all the feats that can be doubled by spell perfection? (Spell Focus, Elemental Focus, Weapon Focus(Ray), and Spell Penetration and all of their greater versions: Is that all of them?)
2. What are all the feats that can be doubled by spell perfection? (Spell Focus, Elemental Focus, Weapon Focus(Ray), and Spell Penetration and all of their greater versions: Is that all of them?)
Augment Summoning is a good one. Weapon Focus (melee touch) might be possible too, I'm not sure, or at least the individual spells should be (weapon focus (chill touch)).
Augment Summoning is a good one. Weapon Focus (melee touch) might be possible too, I'm not sure, or at least the individual spells should be (weapon focus (chill touch)).
2. What are all the feats that can be doubled by spell perfection? (Spell Focus, Elemental Focus, Weapon Focus(Ray), and Spell Penetration and all of their greater versions: Is that all of them?)
Oh, right! There are some other feats that have Spell Focus as a prerequisite.
Can you use Reach Spell on something like Chill Touch? Would that mean that you can could multiple touch attacks with a range?
Ugh, it's all confusing. How does Reach combine with either of these?
Chill Touch
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yesA touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds + 1 round per caster level.
Calcific Touch
School transmutation [earth]; Level sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature or creatures touched (up to one per level)
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes
Your touch progressively transmutes the substance of creatures you touch into stone. Once per round, you may deliver a touch attack that inflicts 1d4 points of Dexterity damage and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round. A successful Fortitude save negates the slow effect but not the ability damage. A target reduced to 0 Dexterity is petrified permanently. Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
Ugh, it's all confusing. How does Reach combine with either of these?
They become ranged and require a ranged touch attack, I'd guess. Theoretically you could claim they should still use a melee touch attack from range, but that seems illogical, weird, and doesn't seem to be the RAI.
Ugh, it's all confusing. How does Reach combine with either of these?They become ranged and require a ranged touch attack, I'd guess. Theoretically you could claim they should still use a melee touch attack from range, but that seems illogical, weird, and doesn't seem to be the RAI.
Wow, that's quite amusing. I could Enlarge and Reach (+3) Calcific Touch and make a touch attack with a range of 800ft + 80ft/level for 1/level rounds. Oh, let's throw in extend for good measure.
Huh. They really screwed over Enlarge Spell, didn't they? Not that anyone used the feat to begin with. (MAYBE as a rod, if there's nothing else to buy) Reach Spell is better in every way. Not only does it give better range, it can give range to touch attacks. The only reason you would EVER use Enlarge spell is on a Long Range Spell or in conjunction with Reach Spell. ...and how often is 800ft+80ft/level going to be more useful than 400ft+40ft/level? Not saying there's no such scenario, but that's really quite obscure. Reach Spell does what Enlarge Spell always should have been able to do.
You can increase the range of your spells.
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of close, medium, or long to increase its range by 100%. An enlarged spell with a range of close now has a range of 50 ft. + 5 ft./level, while medium-range spells have a range of 200 ft. + 20 ft./level and long-range spells have a range of 800 ft. + 80 ft./level. An enlarged spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Spells whose ranges are not defined by distance, as well as spells whose ranges are not close, medium, or long, do not benefit from this feat.
Reach Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells go farther than normal.
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch,
close, or medium to increase its range to a higher
range category, using the following order: touch, close,
medium, and long. A reach spell uses up a spell slot
one level higher than the spell’s actual level for each
increase in range category. For example, a spell with a
range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell
slot three levels higher. Spells modif ied by this feat
that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged
touch attacks.
Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or
medium do not benefit from this feat.
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Huh. They really screwed over Enlarge Spell, didn't they?
The only way Enlarge Spell was ever cool was in the first months of 3.0, when it was believed that one could enlarge a cone spell with it, and make a 30 ft. color spray or burning hands or whatever. Then that was clarified to not be an option, and it went straight to the 'only take this feat if a really cool PrC requires it' pile.
Wow, that's quite amusing. I could Enlarge and Reach (+3) Calcific Touch and make a touch attack with a range of 800ft + 80ft/level for 1/level rounds. Oh, let's throw in extend for good measure.Ugh, it's all confusing. How does Reach combine with either of these?They become ranged and require a ranged touch attack, I'd guess. Theoretically you could claim they should still use a melee touch attack from range, but that seems illogical, weird, and doesn't seem to be the RAI.
Yeah, and then you have a spell that takes an 9th level slot that allows a ranged touch for some dex damage all day, and a slow unless making a really easy save (dc 14+stat).
I could see it with a single +1 reach though, that could be useful when you get it.
Wow, that's quite amusing. I could Enlarge and Reach (+3) Calcific Touch and make a touch attack with a range of 800ft + 80ft/level for 1/level rounds. Oh, let's throw in extend for good measure.Ugh, it's all confusing. How does Reach combine with either of these?They become ranged and require a ranged touch attack, I'd guess. Theoretically you could claim they should still use a melee touch attack from range, but that seems illogical, weird, and doesn't seem to be the RAI.Yeah, and then you have a spell that takes an 9th level slot that allows a ranged touch for some dex damage all day, and a slow unless making a really easy save (dc 14+stat).
I could see it with a single +1 reach though, that could be useful when you get it.
Wasn't saying it was optimal or anything. >.<; Just thought that the visual was amusing of sitting on top of a large building or somesuch and randomly sniping people with a single spell. Reach +2 would probably be about all you would need to do that. ...or just cast Spectral Hand? I guess that works too, no? At 7th level you can hit people at medium range once per round.
For the record, you cannot Enlarge a Touch range spell, even if you've applied Reach to it to make it not a Touch spell. Metamagics are always applied to the base spell; that's why a Maximized Empowered caster level 10 fireball deals 5d6+60 damage.
For the record, you cannot Enlarge a Touch range spell, even if you've applied Reach to it to make it not a Touch spell. Metamagics are always applied to the base spell; that's why a Maximized Empowered caster level 10 fireball deals 5d6+60 damage.
Huh. Really? I thought metamagic stacked, but they made a special case out of the Empowered Maximized interaction. Not as if stacking Enlarge and Reach would be game-breaking anyway, but meh. How about Intensified Spell? Does that stack with an Empowered Maximized Fireball? Is it (15d6 x .5) + 90 or is it 5d6+60+5d6? (As a 15th level caster)
Ugh, it's all confusing. How does Reach combine with either of these?They become ranged and require a ranged touch attack, I'd guess. Theoretically you could claim they should still use a melee touch attack from range, but that seems illogical, weird, and doesn't seem to be the RAI.
Late in actually responding to this. xP The Reach Spell feat specifically states that touch attacks become ranged touch attacks. I was just confused at the notion of being able to make multiple ranged touch attacks. (Anyone know how Chill Touch works? Calcific Touch has a duration, while Chill Touch says you have a number of touches equal to your level. What's the time frame in which you can make these touches? They stay with you until you cast another spell or what?)