Continual Flame vs. Darkness

[Saving Cap'n Crunch]

I checked the rules and couldn't find what I was looking for, but I was wondering. If you have a Continual Flame effect active, such as from an everburning torch, what happens when Darkness (not Deeper Darkness, but I guess the same answer would apply if your Flame was heightened to 3rd level) comes into effect? They are of equal level, so I would think they would simply invalidate each other for the duration of the Darkness.

[thejeff]

Darkness wrote:

Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.

So you'd need a Heightened (3rd level) Continual Flame to have any effect at all in a Darkness spell.

[Jeraa]

thejeff wrote:

Darkness wrote:

Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.

So you'd need a Heightened (3rd level) Continual Flame to have any effect at all in a Darkness spell.

Yes and no. A spell level 2 continual flame spell can be used to dispel a spell level 2 darkness spell. That would end the darkness spell (and the continual flame spell would not actually come into effect) and return the light level to whatever is normal for that area.

A continual flame spell heightened to spell level 3rd is needed to raise the light level in the area of a still-active darkness spell.

As for coming into effect in the opposite order - a darkness spell can be used to dispel an existing continual flame spell, ending both immediately and returning light levels to whatever is normal. Or instead of dispelling it, darkness can be cast normally, in which case the continual flame spell wouldn't be able to brighten the area until darkness ended, but both spells would exist for their normal durations.

[lemeres]

There is another problem when discussing continual flame: are we talking about a level 2 one, or a level 3 one?

This is not about heightened spell. The spell has different levels on different classes. Clerics get it as a 3rd level spell. Usually, that is a downgrade... but when playing with light/darkness rules, it might be a plus. A one time expense to take out basic darkness spells? On a class that can switch out through every spell on its list? Sounds like a great deal.

Heck, if need be, I would ask the local temple to cast it if need be. A level 5 cleric isn't that hard to find. Quadruples the price, but it is a really great item. Especially on a ioun torch.

[thejeff]

Jeraa wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Darkness wrote:

Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.

So you'd need a Heightened (3rd level) Continual Flame to have any effect at all in a Darkness spell.

Yes and no. A spell level 2 continual flame spell can be used to dispel a spell level 2 darkness spell. That would end the darkness spell (and the continual flame spell would not actually come into effect) and return the light level to whatever is normal for that area.

A continual flame spell heightened to spell level 3rd is needed to raise the light level in the area of a still-active darkness spell.

As for coming into effect in the opposite order - a darkness spell can be used to dispel an existing continual flame spell, ending both immediately and returning light levels to whatever is normal. Or instead of dispelling it, darkness can be cast normally, in which case the continual flame spell wouldn't be able to brighten the area until darkness ended, but both spells would exist for their normal durations.

Yes, the "counter and dispel" works against spells of equal or lower level, but that's an active "cast to counter" and follows those rules. In particular, in the case of Continual Light vs Darkness, both are Range: Touch, you have to actually touch the item that has had Darkness cast on it.

Makes it much more situational.

[Andy Brown]

the blog may help here

[Ravingdork]

If the GM allows, I'm usually pretty quick to buy a glass orb with a heightened continual flame spell on it (4th-level, or higher if the GM allows). I find that darkness is rarely a problem after that.