I've been reading on the rules, but I'm still confused. Any clarification would be aprpeciated.
The rules for overrun state that I during a move or charge can use a standard action to make an overrun attempt.
If I am mounted and have trample and I wish to attack an enemy situated behind another enemy, would I be able to overrun/trample the first opponent and make an attack at the second enemy?
They way I'm seeing it, it's really my mount doing the trampling, so it must also be my mount who is using up it's standard action, which frees me up to attack the second enemy behind the first using my own standard action.
Eh, is that possible, or am I missing something here?
Yar.
Although I've been playing a Cavalier since the playtesting for it started, and am still playing that character, I have not used any overruns or tramples. partly because I'm not too sure on the answer to this question myself, and partly because I feel that the mount should have the overrun and trample feats in order to do this, and my cavalier's mount is more of an agile mount than a powerhouse mount. Also, mounts have a limited number of feats already, and this combo is too costly for me.
However, as a regular DM, I can make a guess or suggestion of how I'd rule it. Which is basically a yes. I agree that it is the mount doing the overrun and trample, and using it's actions to do so. The rider is waiting for the mount to overrun/trample foe #1 so that he can charge foe #2 when the mount gets to it. I would rule that if your mount had Pounce, hes not be able to pounce or even attack the second enemy, becase he had to sacrific a standard action to get past the first enemy. I'd also houserule that the mount can take Trample without needed to have taken 'mounted combat' first, though it would still need power attack before taking improved overrun and greater overrun.
That's just me though.
~P
Actually, now that Charge Through has appeared as a feat in the APG, we can see that only with it you can overrun a creature as a free action. Every other use of overrun, be it as part of a move or charge, considers the target of the overrun as the target of the charge, plain and simple. It even makes more sense according to the rule, there has to be a clear line between you and your target (no exceptions on the rulebook or anywhere else, at least before APG).
Yes Charge Through means Overrun becomes a free action. Which means they can have 2 move actions, or a move action and a melee attack/standard action. Ie. they can charge as well.
But even without it, your mount (if it has the feats) can Overrun as part of their move action. They only get one move action doing this tho. Your mount Overruns the opponent, and finishes its move action.
The rider can still Charge as a standard action (but cannot full attack) at any point in their mount's move action.
If the Overrun fails then the rider is limited to a standard action - and if they declared a charge, it is ruined - unless they charged (with a reach weapon, ie. lance) the opponent that the Overrun was initiated against.
Realistically, despite the RAW, you cannot Overrun on a Charge without Charge Through. Charge is a Full-Round Action, Overrun is a Standard Action. Without some way of gaining an extra Standard Action, or making Overrun Swift or Free (ex. Charge Through) it simply cannot be done.
Even while mounted, you can't Overrun on a Charge. Your mount has the same action limitations you do. Your mount CAN Overrun as a Standard Action during it's Move, (and if you have Trample, it can make a free hoof attack with a +4 bonus for a prone opponent) after which you can make a single attack, but you don't get the the bonus for charging.
Oh, and even if you could Overrun and Charge, you can't do both to the same opponent. Charge requires you to stop in the closest space that you can attack the opponent in, Overrun requires you to move through the opponent's space. The two are mutually exclusive. The target of your Overrun can't possibly be the target of your Charge.
Well, you actually designate a target in the overrun maneuver, that is the same as the target of your charge, which would be mentioned otherwise, the only difference is that instead of attacking him with your charge action and stopping right in front of him, you are trying to get past him, and continue your movement. I think that is the spirit of the rule specially regarding the use of overrun when charging. The idea of having an option for moving through a barrier (in this case an enemy) in order to continue moving and probable either get to another enemy behind the first, reposition yourself in the battlefield or escape.
Even while mounted, you can't Overrun on a Charge. Your mount has the same action limitations you do. Your mount CAN Overrun as a Standard Action during it's Move, (and if you have Trample, it can make a free hoof attack with a +4 bonus for a prone opponent) after which you can make a single attack, but you don't get the the bonus for charging.
Why not?
Oh, and even if you could Overrun and Charge, you can't do both to the same opponent. Charge requires you to stop in the closest space that you can attack the opponent in, Overrun requires you to move through the opponent's space. The two are mutually exclusive. The target of your Overrun can't possibly be the target of your Charge.
What if you have Ride-By Attack?
Why don't you read the rules, some nifty things in there about charge and overrun :)
Why don't you read the rules, some nifty things in there about charge and overrun :)
You talking to me?
All i do is read rules lol!
Besides that, which rule in particular are you alluding to?