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The way is is written, I guess that using Lay on hands to deal damage to undead is a standard action. However, it requires a successful melee touch attack. Thus I have several questions :
1) if I try to make a melee touch attack as a standard action and I miss, does it uses up 1 use of the Lay on hands ability ?
2) Can I use Spring attack to move, touch attack (with laying on hands damage if succesful), move ?
3) Can I use Lay on hands while full attacking (all melee touch attacks) ?
And if it is possible, can I use several Lay on hands (one with each successful touch attack) or only one (the first successful touch attack) ?
4) Can I make another kind of touch attack (ex : Chill Touch or a Cure spell as a touch attack) and , if it is successful, add the Lay on hands damage ?
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Ok, while these are more aimed at spells, I'm pretty sure that its how your lay on hands question is 'handled'.
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
So to take them in order...
1) if I try to make a melee touch attack as a standard action and I miss, does it uses up 1 use of the Lay on hands ability ?- No, you'd be considered 'holding the charge' until you touch something.
2) Can I use Spring attack to move, touch attack (with laying on hands damage if succesful), move ?
- I would say yes, providing you used the LoH the round before and were holding the charge. Normally the standard action used to cast the spell allows for a free touch, as mentioned above, if you don't use it on the round its cast, its then a standard action to touch.
3) Can I use Lay on hands while full attacking (all melee touch attacks)?
- If all your attacks are unarmed attacks the round after you activated your LoH, yes. But only the first would be LoH. A spell like Chill touch, you could get a full attack off because you can touch a target per level, but you couldn't use that in conjunction with LoH since you can only have one touch spell going at once.
And if it is possible, can I use several Lay on hands (one with each successful touch attack) or only one (the first successful touch attack) ?
- Again, only the first, since its a standard action to activate and you can only have one going.
4) Can I make another kind of touch attack (ex : Chill Touch or a Cure spell as a touch attack) and , if it is successful, add the Lay on hands damage ?
- Again, no. you can only have one touch effect going at a time.
Now, I don't know if anyone will argue the point that LoH isn't a spell, its supernatural, so it shouldn't follow the same rules as spells, well I say they're full of bunk.
While it is useful to compare Lay on Hands with a spell, it shares similarities with touch spells, Lay on Hands is neither a spell nor an SLA. It doesn't provoke, has no components, it can't be countered, it bypasses SR, it can't be identified via Spellcraft, doesn't require concentration, etc.
1) You must touch someone to use LOH. If there's no touch then there's no use.
2) LOH is a Standard Action that may require an attack. it is not an Attack Action and can't be used in conjuction with Spring Attack. LOH is not a spell, there is no "Holding the Charge" with LOH.
3) LOH is a Standard Action and, as such, cannot be use as part of a Full Attack Action.
4) Well, you can hold the charge on most spells, and the charge is discharged as soon as you touch something. So as long as you're holding the charge from a previous turn, yeah, you can Cure and LOH at the same time
As for "bunk" if LOH is a spell, what level is it, how does a 2nd Lv Pally "cast" it without a caster level. If you want to LOH in a speeding wagon (Violent Motion) what's the concentration DC?
As for "bunk" if LOH is a spell, what level is it, how does a 2nd Lv Pally "cast" it without a caster level. If you want to LOH in a speeding wagon (Violent Motion) what's the concentration DC?
DC = 0 it's supernatural and as such is beyond concentration rolls.
As for "bunk" if LOH is a spell, what level is it, how does a 2nd Lv Pally "cast" it without a caster level. If you want to LOH in a speeding wagon (Violent Motion) what's the concentration DC?DC = 0 it's supernatural and as such is beyond concentration rolls.
Yes, I realize this, I was attacking Eric's argument for preemptively labeling mine as "Bunk"
Yeah having read his argument I realize he has no legs to stand on from a rules stand point.
Supernatural abilities specifically aren't spells, and aren't even spell like abilities. As such they have their own rules which are in fact the only rules they follow -- anything beyond those rules unless specified by the supernatural ability itself isn't accplicable to supernatural abilities.
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Yeah having read his argument I realize he has no legs to stand on from a rules stand point.
Supernatural abilities specifically aren't spells, and aren't even spell like abilities. As such they have their own rules which are in fact the only rules they follow -- anything beyond those rules unless specified by the supernatural ability itself isn't accplicable to supernatural abilities.
First off, I never claimed that LoH was a spell. I was just pointing out how touch spells worked, since there are no rules to answer his questions for supernatural abilities. If you know of any, feel free to point them out. I was just using existing rules to extend to an ability that had no rules written to cover the questions asked.
Yes, I realize this, I was attacking Eric's argument for preemptively labeling mine as "Bunk"
;) Just because I held up my fist didn't mean you had to run into it...