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I'm a bit confused about creating a new character. I saw a heap of pregenerated 1st level characters for pathfinder society play in a link from another thread in these forums. All the characters seem to have 1 feat too many (in other words 2 for non-humans and 3 for humans) while not having been given any traits.
I read in the downloadable 'Guide to Pathfinder Society Organised Play' that a trait effectively counts as half a feat. Does this mean that you can forego selecting 2 traits and instead select an extra feat?
Clarification on this topic would be appreciated.
You're talking about the pregen characters here? http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/pregeneratedCharacters
They all have the right number of feats: three for the fighter and wizard (because of the fighter/wizard bonus feat and the human bonus feat), two for the cleric (because of the human bonus feat), and one for the rogue.
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You are correct. They should only have 1, 2 or 3 feats (human fighter). You cannot take a feat instead of traits.
The only other possibility is that the characters you are referencing have a trait in the feat section. It is possible that whoever generated the characters put in one trait, leaving space for a faction trait.
EDIT: ninja''d by Hogarth. Forgot about the possiblility of Feats generated by Class Abilities (eg Wizard, Sorceror, Ranger..)
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You are correct. They should only have 1, 2 or 3 feats (human fighter). You cannot take a feat instead of traits.
The only other possibility is that the characters you are referencing have a trait in the feat section. It is possible that whoever generated the characters put in one trait, leaving space for a faction trait.
EDIT: ninja''d by Hogarth. Forgot about the possiblility of Feats generated by Class Abilities (eg Wizard, Sorceror, Ranger..)
Actually it was not a Fighter or Wizard class at all. I was looking at a thread that had all the base classes in it from APG as pregen characters. I am interested in making a witch character. There were over half a dozen pregen examples of witch characters and all the non-humans started with 2 feats and the humans had 3 feats but no traits that I could see.
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Actually it was not a Fighter or Wizard class at all. I was looking at a thread that had all the base classes in it from APG as pregen characters. I am interested in making a witch character. There were over half a dozen pregen examples of witch characters and all the non-humans started with 2 feats and the humans had 3 feats but no traits that I could see.You are correct. They should only have 1, 2 or 3 feats (human fighter). You cannot take a feat instead of traits.
The only other possibility is that the characters you are referencing have a trait in the feat section. It is possible that whoever generated the characters put in one trait, leaving space for a faction trait.
EDIT: ninja''d by Hogarth. Forgot about the possiblility of Feats generated by Class Abilities (eg Wizard, Sorceror, Ranger..)
Specifically to the witch, perhaps it's the Alertness feat that's throwing your count off? Alertness is a feat you gain from your familiar when it's within 5 feet but otherwise does not count toward any if your feats spent.
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Actually it was not a Fighter or Wizard class at all. I was looking at a thread that had all the base classes in it from APG as pregen characters. I am interested in making a witch character. There were over half a dozen pregen examples of witch characters and all the non-humans started with 2 feats and the humans had 3 feats but no traits that I could see.You are correct. They should only have 1, 2 or 3 feats (human fighter). You cannot take a feat instead of traits.
The only other possibility is that the characters you are referencing have a trait in the feat section. It is possible that whoever generated the characters put in one trait, leaving space for a faction trait.
EDIT: ninja''d by Hogarth. Forgot about the possiblility of Feats generated by Class Abilities (eg Wizard, Sorceror, Ranger..)
I just found the link from another thread on these forums. It shows the witches with 2 or 3 starting feats depending on race.
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Specifically to the witch, perhaps it's the Alertness feat that's throwing your count off? Alertness is a feat you gain from your familiar when it's within 5 feet but otherwise does not count toward any if your feats spent.
Ah. Zizizat, you are very alert. Obviously you had your familiar nearby to see what I should have spotted in the first place. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding. I was getting unnecessarily excited thinking I could start with an extra feat at 1st level. :(
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Specifically to the witch, perhaps it's the Alertness feat that's throwing your count off? Alertness is a feat you gain from your familiar when it's within 5 feet but otherwise does not count toward any if your feats spent.Ah. Zizizat, you are very alert. Obviously you had your familiar nearby to see what I should have spotted in the first place. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding. I was getting unnecessarily excited thinking I could start with an extra feat at 1st level. :(
I've been investigating a witch build myself recently so it's all still on the top of my brain stack :)
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Hmmm ... since I encouraged the use of Shisumo's pregens by linking them to threads in which players/GMs were asking for pregens, c873788's enquiry has prompted me to have a look through them myself.
I must admit, the Alchemist had me flipping through the APG scratching my head, until I realised Pathfinder Society swaps Brew Potion out for the Extra Bomb feat.
So it's good to ask questions, if not to independently audit the pregens, at least to brush up on our own rules knowledge.
Considering how very easy it is to overlook the origin of a feat, I think Shisumo has done an extraordinary effort to get these pregens out within days of the APG's release. He's provided an awesome service to the community, and it would seem he's done his sums well.
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And for the record, pregens do not get traits. If the character is kept by the player and used later, they may select traits (and faction).
There's actually no reason to deny first-level pregens their faction or traits.
You could transfer all of the stats, feats, equipment etc to a blank character sheet, call it your own character, then choose a faction and give it traits as if you'd built it yourself. So why not just choose them for your pregen before the game?
I think the only reasons pregens don't have a pre-selected faction and traits are:
a) it lets the player choose their own faction, which is largely a campaign/roleplaying choice;
b) faction and traits may be new concepts, even to players familiar with 3.5 but new to Pathfinder, requiring a small amount of campaign knowledge. So rather than delay the start of the game with discussions about factions and traits, this choice could be made after the player has experienced their first Pathfinder Society scenario, and seen other factions in action;
c) it allows pregens to be used in other non-Society adventures and campaigns.
Though I'd argue that without a faction, you miss out on participating in a faction mission, which is an important part of the Pathfinder Society expeirence. New players can fill in their blank traits between sessions, but I'd give all players the opportunity of selecting a faction before the game.
There's really no unfair advantage to be gained from players adding faction and traits to their pregens, rather they're disadvantaged visavis other players if they don't.
New players are already at a disadvantage entering a bewildering new world, let's help them feel a meaningful part of that world, and not lessen their experience for playing a pregen character sans faction responsibilities.
Additionally, GMs require a character's faction in order to record their Organised Play participation online.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
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And for the record, pregens do not get traits. If the character is kept by the player and used later, they may select traits (and faction).There's actually no reason to deny first-level pregens their faction or traits.
You could transfer all of the stats, feats, equipment etc to a blank character sheet, call it your own character, then choose a faction and give it traits as if you'd built it yourself. So why not just choose them for your pregen before the game?
I think the only reasons pregens don't have a pre-selected faction and traits are:
a) it lets the player choose their own faction, which is largely a campaign/roleplaying choice;
b) faction and traits may be new concepts, even to players familiar with 3.5 but new to Pathfinder, requiring a small amount of campaign knowledge. So rather than delay the start of the game with discussions about factions and traits, this choice could be made after the player has experienced their first Pathfinder Society scenario, and seen other factions in action;
c) it allows pregens to be used in other non-Society adventures and campaigns.
Though I'd argue that without a faction, you miss out on participating in a faction mission, which is an important part of the Pathfinder Society expeirence. New players can fill in their blank traits between sessions, but I'd give all players the opportunity of selecting a faction before the game.
There's really no unfair advantage to be gained from players adding faction and traits to their pregens, rather they're disadvantaged visavis other players if they don't.
New players are already at a disadvantage entering a bewildering new world, let's help them feel a meaningful part of that world, and not lessen their experience for playing a pregen character sans faction responsibilities.
Additionally, GMs require a character's faction in order to record their Organised Play participation online.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
+1
With an exception. There is a PFS senario that introduces your PC to the Society. "Master of the Fallen Fortress" doesn't have any faction goals so you could add traits to a pregen and be ready to play.
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I'm sure Majuba will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that he was just saying the pre-gens don't have traits (or factions) printed on them.
My earlier post regarding traits was because I didn't know what source the OP had obtained their pre-gens from.
Actually, I thought that was the case, but someone unfamiliar with Pathfinder Society could easily have interpreted it otherwise, which is why I thought it necessary to spell it out. I'd hate for a GM somewhere say "sorry, you can't choose a faction because you're playing a pregen" based off something he read on these boards.