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Since Paizo decided to reprint the Bear Trap in the new APG, I want to know how to reconcile this with trapmaking rules. The trap being a CR1 mechanical trap that costs 2g.
Quote: The cost of a mechanical trap is 1,000 gp × the trap's Challenge Rating. If the trap uses spells in its trigger or reset, add those costs separately. If the trap cannot be reset, divide the cost in half. If the trap has an automatic reset, increase the cost by half (+50%). Particularly simple traps, such as pit traps, might have a greatly reduced cost, subject to GM discretion. Such traps might cost as little as 250 gp × the trap's Challenge Rating. Even assuming this is a simple trap, it's still 248g shy. That doesn't even take into account that items using cost more to buy than make.
This is not to say that I mind the Bear Trap, but I think it points to how the trapmaking rules are insufficient as written. Even Paizo doesn't seem to be following them. I wanted to have a trapmaking character in a game, but deemed it far too costly and time consuming.
I think to rectify this, we need a straightforward list of traps with reasonable costs and DCs clearly attached similar to what can be found for poisons.
Another thread on the topic
Xanthum wrote: I think to rectify this, we need a straightforward list of traps with reasonable costs and DCs clearly attached similar to what can be found for poisons. I agree that trap costs are a little silly. From the villain's persective, why spend 3000 gold to trap a chest with a CR 3 trap, if it only has CR 3 loot in it? What irony when he comes back later to see that the party dumped the treasure on the floor and made off with the chest to sell.
Also, I think it'd make a nice rogue option to be able to make affordable traps, or carry small portable traps that they can set anywhere. Other than just bear traps, of course.
For example, setting out caltrops in a way that makes them hidden, or a low strung wire to trip someone, or a snare, or a crossbow tied to a tripwire. I'm thinking of little things that can be set up in under a minute, and probably are only good for a day if not maintained.
These can all be DM calls, but I think it's worth exploring as class variant or rules subset.
Somewhere in the far north there's a witch with a magic mill that can grind out anything you want but she got it stuck on the "bear trap" setting too long and she now has warehouses of the things so is letting them go at fire sale prices. Law of supply and demand.
More seriously, I think the 1000 GP is supposed to give you a more intricate or well made trap, or, more probably, it's like everything else in the crafting system and it's seriously borked.
Needs to be fixed otherwise villains with 1000 GP to burn will just buy 500 bear traps and set up a mine field.
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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I keep wondering what happens when you use a loaded Bear Trap as a thrown weapon. :)
Adam Moorhouse 759 wrote: Xanthum wrote: I think to rectify this, we need a straightforward list of traps with reasonable costs and DCs clearly attached similar to what can be found for poisons. I agree that trap costs are a little silly. From the villain's persective, why spend 3000 gold to trap a chest with a CR 3 trap, if it only has CR 3 loot in it? What irony when he comes back later to see that the party dumped the treasure on the floor and made off with the chest to sell.
Also, I think it'd make a nice rogue option to be able to make affordable traps, or carry small portable traps that they can set anywhere. Other than just bear traps, of course.
For example, setting out caltrops in a way that makes them hidden, or a low strung wire to trip someone, or a snare, or a crossbow tied to a tripwire. I'm thinking of little things that can be set up in under a minute, and probably are only good for a day if not maintained.
These can all be DM calls, but I think it's worth exploring as class variant or rules subset. Well Villains don't actually pay for traps... they either have them or they don't. Only PC's have to pay for them, which is probably why they're so danged expensive.
There needs to be a subset of rules for simple mechanical traps (snares, tripwires, etc.)
--Vrock you like a Hurricane!
I was considering a Kobold Trapsmith myself, and since gunpowder was introduced in Ultimate Combat, traps can become a lot cheaper, and considerably more devastating. Kobold IED attacks could be created from a handful of spare parts and an alchemy check, and a "barrel behind the door" style trap could be improvised with a metal tube, a sandbag, a single bullet, and a single charge of powder.
the creation costs listed there I think are more in the ilk of "stronghold defense/dungeon creation" costs... nobody has caught on to the fact that a bear trap and a tiny "camouflage netting" ala Heroes of Battle would set up a devastating ambush for a grand total of 7 gold pieces... and a sixth level kobold with the Extrodinary Trapsmith feat could make most of that for a quarter of the cost...
heck, even an extending spear trap could be crafted with a steel shaft like one of those collapsing extendable batons, a trip wire, and a dab of alchemists fire and a half-dose of gunpowder. throw an adjustable tripod on it and bango. I wouldn't suspect that'd run more than 25 gp, and it'd be a lot like a bear trap, except piercing damage, and attacks an adjacent square...
as far as these man-portable booby-traps go though, I think they reach their upper limits after you start incorporating hundreds of GP worth of alchemical explosives. it's hard to make some of these things viable past one good "Gotcha!" moment per combat, but I have seen some neat ideas about automatically resetting ranged traps on carts providing cover fire like automated turrets with +10 attack bonuses on ranged touch attacks with 6d6 points of acid damage...
anyway, I think these sorts of things would be better treated as items or gadgets that have a trap function, like caltrops. cheap, simple, efficient, but never really super powerful.
however, layering multiple low-level traps upon eachother could also have a devastating effect... for instance, putting an Explosive Runes on the spring of a bear trap... first they take the bear trap damage, and perhaps get knocked prone, and then get scorched when they try to figure out how to get the damned thing off...
additionally- it doesnt say anything about rules for setting traps.
Like the bear trap doesnt mention whether someone who isnt a rogue, doesnt have any trap-related skill or ability- can prepare this trap. Unless youre gonna tell me that the dc to Disable the trap is the same DC to set it without chopping your face off... (which would make sense considering that in fallout, it requires a higher skill to rearm a trap once youve disabled it...)
I was just warning you.
Some people walk in like it happened in the last hour, but is over two years old.
Not everyone is trying to be jerk.;)
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