APG Stab and Grab clarification


Rules Questions


Can anyone give an explanation how this class feature of the Cutpurse works (p.133)? First it says it takes a full-round action to use, then it says it can otherwise be used in the surprise round. Wha?

Quote:
Stab and Grab… as a full round action, a cutpurse can make an attack and also make a Sleight of Hand check to steal something from the target of the attack. If the attack deals sneak attack damage, the rogue can use Sleight of Hand to take an item from the creature during combat; otherwise this ability can only be used in a surprise round before the target has acted. …

How can you use this ability in the surprise round if it takes a full-round action to use?

Liberty's Edge

The same way the Charge action is a full round action but still can be used in a surpise round.

Liberty's Edge

anthony Valente wrote:


How can you use this ability in the surprise round if it takes a full-round action to use?

Because is specifically says it can be used during a surprise round. Simple as that =D


So in other words:

1) Surprise round = you can make an attack and Sleight of Hand check if the target hasn't acted yet. Is this a free action, swift action, or standard action? (I doubt it would be a move action. I'm guessing it's a standard action then)

2) Normal = you can make an attack and Sleight of Hand check, but it takes a full round action

I'm confused because it says that it takes a full-round action to use and then goes on to say that you can use it in a surprise round (where you can't use full-round actions). Referencing the charging rules is a good analogy, but even they state that you can do it as a standard action if you only have a standard action available on your turn.

I've a feeling that this is how it is intended to work, but the text doesn't spell it out plainly for me at least. Is this the correct interpretation?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You get one move action or one standard action in a surprise round. If the rogue starts off next to the target at the start of the surprise round he can do a stab and grab otherwise he'll just just have to do with a standard action or a move action.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

PRD-Stab and Grab wrote:
Stab and Grab (Ex): At 3rd level, as a full-round action, a cutpurse can make an attack and also make a Sleight of Hand check to steal something from the target of the attack. If the attack deals sneak attack damage, the rogue can use Sleight of Hand to take an item from the creature during combat; otherwise this ability can only be used in a surprise round before the target has acted. If the attack is successful, the target takes a –5 penalty on the Perception check to notice the theft. This ability replaces trap sense.

The bolded part is referring to using the sleight of hand skill.

PRD-Sleight of hand wrote:
...You cannot use this skill to take an object from another creature during combat if the creature is aware of your presence.

While a creature is flat footed in the the surprise round they are unaware and therefore you can use sleight of hand on them.

After that point in time if you want to take something from another creature you have to use Disarm or Steal. Which are combat manuevers, so you need a good CMB check to get past there CMD

What Stab and Grab allows you to do is when you sneak attack them do one attack, hurt them and then use slieght of hand DC 20 to take the item. Yes the creature gets the pereception check to notice it occur but if the rogue makes the DC 20 check even if his CMD is 50 the item is taken.

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