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There are a lot of threads out there related to the stacking rules for poison, but I have what is hopefully a much more basic set of rules questions. After re-reading the rules several times and scouring the threads, I just don't get how initial and secondary effects work for afflictions. My interpretation was that whenever you failed your first "real" save, the initial effect took place. Whenever you fail any saves after that, the secondary effect took place. I use the term "real" save to distinguish between afflictions with an onsite time versus those without. For example, here's my interpretation for a poison with no onset and a frequency of 1/rnd:
1. When hit with the poison, the character rolls a save
2. If he fails, he immediately suffers the initial effect
3. On his next turn, character makes another save. If not cured, he suffers the secondary effect
4. Repeat step 3 until cured
Similarly, for a poison with an onset of 1 rnd and a frequency of 1/rnd:
1. When hit with the poison, the character rolls a save
2. If he fails, he is afflicted, but doesn't yet suffer any effects
3. On his next turn, the character makes another save. If not cured, he suffers the initial effect
4. On his next turn, the character makes another save. If not cured, he suffers the secondary effect
5. Repeat step 4 until cured
Here's why I think I must be confused. I don't see how this interpretation can be correct given the RAW for Drow Poison or Green Prismatic Poison.
Drow poison has no onset and a frequency of 1/min for 2 min. Initial effect unconsious for 1 min; secondary effect unconscious for 2d4 hours. Cure: 1 save.
So, by my interpretation, the 2 minutes of frequency are irrelevant. When you are hit, you fall unconscious for 1 min if you fail your save. One minute later, you get another save. If you fail again, you are unconscious for 2d4 hours. So, the second minute in the frequency has no purpose since by minute 2 you are either cured or already unconscious for 2d4 hours.
Green Prismatic poison is even stranger. The initial effect is death, but it also has a secondary effect, a frequency, and a cure option. But, none of that matters since as soon as I fail my first save, I'm dead. Secondary damage to Con is of little consequence.
I must be missing something.
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Your interpretation is right, as far as I can see.
The reason drow poison has a frequency of 1/round for 2 rounds is to show you need two saves. If it was just 1/round for 1 round, it would imply you need only make one save. In fact, if you fail the first save, you need to make another save after 1 round to be cured or fall unconscious for the full duration (2d4 hours).
For green prismatic poison, you need 2 saves to be cured. If you fail the first save, you die. If you make the first save, you still need to save again every round for 6 rounds for the secondary effect. You've already saved once against the initial effect (death), but you still have to make that second save (taking 1 Con damage each round until you save) to be cured.
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Drow poison has no onset and a frequency of 1/min for 2 min. Initial effect unconsious for 1 min; secondary effect unconscious for 2d4 hours. Cure: 1 save.
If you fail your initial save versus drow poison you sleep. After one minute you get a second save and if you fail it you sleep for another 2-4 hours. The frequency of 2 min is a bit confusing or just wrong (so your reading is right)
Green Prismatic poison is even stranger. The initial effect is death, but it also has a secondary effect, a frequency, and a cure option. But, none of that matters since as soon as I fail my first save, I'm dead. Secondary damage to Con is of little consequence.
I agree, it's extremely strange. Consider for a moment that poisoned is a condition you can gain. If you get poisoned by a normal poison you save to avoid the condition AND the initial effect. If you are poisoned by a spell the spell directly gives you the poisoned condition and the first save only avoids the initial effect. So with prismatic spray you are poisoned, you save to avoid the initial effect (death), but even if you make the save you are still poisoned until you meet the 'cure' condition of 2 consecutive saves.
All that said... this is my effort to try and impose consistency where there is an apparent contradiction.
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When completed, the alchemist has one dose of poison.
The poison’s frequency is extended by 50% and the save DC
increases by +2.
It is effectively creating a new poison with a higher DC and duration so a second dose of a concentrated poison would act as a second dose of this 'new' poison.
A related question is what happens if you inflict a third dose that hasn't been concentrated? Personally I'm not quite clear on that... maybe +1 to the DC? *shrug*
Finally Learning how to search the boards instead of starting a new thread huray for me